Why has the Amtrak E60 no Ditchlights? As i heard from friends every engine in the USA must have Ditches since 1994, why not the E60?
Micha
I´m not 100 % sure, but when the E60´s, now all retired, run only at a line without public grade crossings they need no ditch lights! And when the engine is equipped with strobe lights, strobe lights replace the ditch lights - sometimes also called auxiliary lights.
An engine without ditchlights must reduce speed at crossings!
When this answer isn´t correct please note me.
This is the BNSF rule for ditch lights:
Displaying Ditch Lights
Auxiliary lights to the front of the lead locomotive must be displayed just prior to and during movement over
public grade crossings.
Required auxiliary lights: Engines not equipped with operative auxiliary lights must not exceed 20 MPH (head
end restriction) over public grade crossings. Engines displaying operating ditch lights, an oscillating white
headlight, or strobe lights may proceed at authorized speed over public grade crossings.
Auxiliary light enroute failure: A locomotive must not be operated as the lead unit on a train out of an initial
terminal unless all auxiliary lights, if equipped, are operative. If one light fails enroute, the train may proceed at
authorized speed, but repairs must be made by the next daily inspection. If two lights fail enroute, the train may
proceed, but not beyond the first point at which repairs may be made, and the train must not exceed 20 MPH
(head end restriction) over public grade crossings.
Any auxiliary light failure must immediately be reported to the train dispatcher and Mechanical Help Desk."
There were also some questions and answers about Ditch Lights in the Stupid Question Thread. These exchanges took place somewhere around early December, I think.
A bit off the specific subject, but…
When the Wisconsin Central main still followed the former Soo main through
downtown Oshkosh, Wis., their trains crawled through the city at ~5 MPH. The tracks passed a downtown bar and one of my favorite haunts called “Mable
Murphy’s”. I was in that establishment fairly often both while in college there and
after I graduated into the “real world”.
I remember coming out of the bar with friends, having put a good dent into their beer
supply and looking down the main to see a southbound WC job with its ditch lights
blinking for the crossing, and in my state I honestly thought it was a UFO. It was
enough to keep even me in my condition out of the way, so ditch lights must have
been a good idea.
I miss Mars lights. When I was a kid, they used to scare the hell out of me. Certainly attention-getters. I’m sure they’d have a similar effect today, though I understand they were maintenance intensive. The ditchlights don’t seem to grab the eye quite as quickly.
When the Mars lights were availible they were also very expensive to produce. I find that the flashing ditch lights although not as eye catching as the Mars light are also very effective. Mind you if people would smarten up around the railroads we would have to be talking about this topic.
I’ll never understand why anyone gets hit by a train. Natural selection, I guess.
If they can’t see the main headlight and understand the impending danger, ditch lights aren’t going to make any difference. Needless expense for limited benefits.
…I’m a believer in ditch lights…I’m on the side to say they might just call enough attention beyhond the main headlight…[with their blinking, citing action], to make the difference to someone to pay attention and not get hit…
If a locomotive can be granted historical status, it can be operated without ditch lights. An oscilating headlight (Mars or Gyralight) is considered a valid substitute when a waiver is granted by the FRA.
Historical locomotives are, for example, steam locomotives. I am unaware of any diesels or electrics being granted that status, but that does not mean that none are.
I agree that flashing ditch lights can be attention grabbers. Up here in Canada rules are that they are on constantly. Never understood that, doesn’t seem to help much from an observers perspective, unless it helps visibility for the engineer.
Me thinks they should change there rules here, for safety’s sake…
One aspect of ditch lights that I really liked, but seems to go unmentioned is the increased visibility of the roadbed for the engineer.
When running at “restricted speed”, those ditch lights are superb for watching out for broken rails, switches not properly lined, or anything else that might cause the speed of the train to be reduced.
Just like those obnoxious ‘extra’ lights on modern cars (I call them “pothole lights” when in the city, and “rude lights” when on the highway), they become more useless the faster you go, but a slow speeds, they are a great help.
zardoz nailed it – ditch lights were originally intended to be just exactly that: a way of helping the engineer see what he was doing. I think they were first used in Canada, but I could be wrong (I have been before!), and they are still intended for extra light in Canada – so they are always on.
Do they help folks crossing the tracks right in front of the engine see the engine? Dunno. It would seem they don’t – but then, I don’t think anything would help. These are, after all, the same idiots who look at a stoplight and think green means go, yellow means go faster, and red means you have to really step on it. It isn’t that they don’t see the train or the crossing signals or hear the horn, it is that they don’t think it applies to them. Oh well…
Canadian railways installed ditch lights so that the crew can see, not so motorists can see the train. Transport Canada has no rule against flashing ditch lights, and locomotives so equipped are fine if the lights burn steadily between crossings. The CB&CNS railway in Nova Scotia have some ex-Conrail GP15-1’s whose ditch lights flash when the horn is blown. I think that’s the usual arrangement for this feature.
US engines with this feature often cannot lead in Canada because most US-spec locomotives lack the other required lead-unit equipment such as:- A Responder Speed Control
- An Event Recorder
- Controls for a two-way end-of-train devices, with which the engineer can initiate a brake application from the rear end.
What’s a Responder Speed Control?
Somebody of you said something about safety reasons. But think of, in germany trains needn´t to have any lights on (exept pushed cab cars) during the day and we have no safety problem! I did never understand why there are so many accidents in the USA at crossings. Your Railways have no big differences to ours, so normally everything should be fine i think.
Micha
Micha: I’m probably not the best person to answer this, since I’m in Canada where ditch lights were installed to allow the crew to see ahead of them. My limited experience (Germany / Czechoslovakia / Netherlands 1991) suggested that European railways have fewer crossings at grade than in North America, especially near cities. I suspect that the lighter weight of European trains also plays a role - a lighter train is likely to be better able to slow down prior to an impact. Also, the barriers I most often saw fully blocked the road; North American gates usually have gaps that a car can drive through, even in the rare 4-quadrant installations in my area.
Bill: A Responder Speed Control (RSC) is an alterter mechanism required by federal law since 1989 to be functioning in the lead locomotive of any train in Canada. If the engineer fails for a preset time to respond to its prompt, it sounds a piercing alarm, then makes a brake application. Like the old “deadman” control, but more sophisticated.
I think the problem isn’t a difference in railways, but rather a difference in driver licensing requirements, and probably just plain driver attitude.
Since we’re comparing trains on an international basis here…
When I was in Taiwan in the late 80’s on business, I was appauled at the level of
railroad safety precautions on that island. The trains had no ditch lights and
minimal headlighting overall, were over-crowded, went way too fast through
urban areas, the gates at crossings were similar to US crossing gates in the
sense they didn’t block the entire width of the road and in Taiwan the gates
descended about 5 sec. before the train was at the crossing! I also didn’t hear
any whistles/horns being blown when crossings were approached.
If you think Taiwan is frightening, try India…