Just curious if anybody still uses the old PFM onboard sound systems anymore? If so, how do they sound when compared to all the DCC stuff we use today? I have heard the new stuff obviously, but never seen a PFM system operating in person. Mike
I would love to find one, affordably or even just get it out of my hair type deal to play around with on my small layout. I only run 2-3 PFM locomotives, nothing else. I love the old school stuff when it comes to trains, wood kits, older engines, the smell of ozone and hot oil from open frame motors. Hope to hear from some folks that still use the system ect. Mike
I saw one a couple of years ago at a train show - For Sale. There were no takers by the end of the day. I remember when they came out in the late 60’s. The steam sound was not too bad, but the ‘bell’ was rather horrible and the whistle was the best sound. I know PFM later released a reverb unit, and an updated system. By the mid 70’s, PFM imports were on the wane and on-board sound was making itself known. The PFM sound system piped the sound over the rails to a speaker in the tender. There was no electronic chuff sync, one had to use the cam or insulation method to trigger the chuff.
Also by the mid 70’s, the hobby seemed to be going to walk-around throttles and early command control like the CTC-16. Sound was sort of left in the dust by the ‘operator’ types. I remember going to layout tours at NMRA regional meets and there always seemed to be one layout that featured a PFM sound system with one or two sound equipped engines.
Jim
I think a lot depends on the speakers you have and the placement under the layout, etc.
Subsequent to the PFM sound system their were other nicer systems that came out, including one from Dallee Electronics. I’m sure my one friend would still be using it if he hadn’t briefly gone to jail for odometer fraud (I’m not making this up) and had to sell his HO brass collection to pay for legal fees (again, I’m not making this up–I helped handle the sale of the brass collection to John Glaab). Sometimes you can’t pick–or don’t really fully know–what your “train friends” are like in their “alternate life” or “real life” (outside the train room).
But I digress.
Others have asked this question lately–and other responses I’ve heard were just that in some cases the PFM system was simply worn out. It’s been a long time now…
As I’m not a DCC guy–and never will be–if I had the opportunity to pick up a functioning PFM sound system for a song, I might just be inclined to use it.
John
Yes, I have 3 units. 1 Mini-sound and 2 PFM Sound System IIs. The DCC systems are just now getting as good as the PFM are. However it is like comparing apples and oranges. The PFM sound is generated off unit and transmitted into the speaker on the loco. DCC sound units store/generate the sound on board the loco. Most of the PFM sounds are real analog recordings of the various sounds for bells, generators, steam pumps, etc. The sound loop of the PFM tapes is about 5 minutes not 15 the seconds or so on some of the digital ones. The PFM has always had a playable whistle which in my opinion is still way better than the DCC “playable” whistles.
Note there is a huge difference between the original PFM sound unit, the PFM Mark 2, and the systems I am talking about. Those two earlier systems had “electronic” bells, hiss, and other things that were pretty bad. Interesting side note - I sold my Mark 2 to a fellow in Japan that lived only 2 blocks from the factory where they were originally made.
Also the PFM sound was suseptable to dirty track, but in a totally different way then DCC. Instead of cutting out and stalling, PFM sound will miss a chuff, or just crackles and pops like an LP phonograph with dust on it.
The way original DCC sound units increased the chuff and exhaust cut off based on voltage and speed was one of my pet peeves. The PFM needs a feedback from the actual physical position of the wheels to chuff. This is most often in the form of a cam on one of the axles (another reason to buy PFM brass because they have this built in). This makes the sound be exactly aligned with the position of the drivers and exactly the right speed for the speed of the locomotive. I have noticed the newer DCC units offer an input for a cam. This is good news, for people who want accurate sound.
I still haven’t
So, which system would you recommend for a small layout, the mini sound? I wish all PFM brass had the sound cam. My main engine is a late run WP heavy Mikado. It has DCC sound in it for the moment, but its a poor decoder lacking generator whine, sucky whistle selections and poor bark for a heavy Mike. I love the playable whistle I have listened to on youtube of PFM units running. DCC sound will get there, but it will take a different hand held controler to get a playable whistle IMHO. Secondary engines I have are a PFM Southern PS4 pacific and a NKP Berk, but they are basket cases I am rebuilding, early run models that I still need to locate parts for. Espicaly a pilot assembly with the compressors and shields for the NKP Berk. The rest is easy stuff like driver springs and draw bars. Mike
TZ pretty well summed things up. I’ve only heard them at shows a time or two, but the ones with all the goodies and updates have a good reputation. Narrowgaugers especially liked them and some folks still run 'em for the reasons TZ elaborated on.
Yes, the mini-sound was my first unit. Being smaller it is easier to set up and use than the full big monster system II. But if one didn’t know better they would never miss the fetures a full II has over the mini. It is a great unit and has plenty of options. What I really like about it is that it does not have a built in power supply so you can use an MRC Tech II, or better.
Here is my main engine I want to put the PFM sound into. Late run PFM/United WP heavy mikado. I am waiting for the paint to cure before decaling and then toning down the shine a bit, although she will still look freshly shopped. Havent seen anything affordable on that popular auction website, just an early first version console and a full system 2 for some big $$. Thanks for the tips and advice so far, I really appreciate it. I wish the 2-8-2 had the cam factory installed but it doesnt. But thats not a huge feat to install with the cams on the market that dont require pulling a driver to install them. Just have to machine an opening in the retainer plate for the cam. Mike
Club I belong to has one of the system II units we’d like to get rid of. However, all I see is the large console and two tape decks. I don’t see anything in the instructions (looking through quickly) that mention other items. Could you tell me what the complete system II consisted of?
Thanks
If I recall the best sound system I heard was by Maguffin or something like that. I think they only lasted in business a few years as the various command control (Keller, CTC16) were starting to make inroads and they were very expensive, something like a month’s salary so I never bought one. But the sound, especially the bass with a separate large speaker made you feel like the loco was in the room with you.
It should have a reverb unit. That would be a brass colored box about 15 inches long 4 inches wide and an inch deep. It basically has 4 large springs in it. Has two RCA phono plugs on the side. One at either end.
The stationary speaker unit is a raw circuit board with a large transformer, a couple large can capacitors, and sliver toggle. It isn’t real large about 5"x5". You know I don’t remember exactly what the official name for this is.
I’m puzzled about the tape drives. There should be 1 unit with 3 tape devices in it.
BTW these are quarter track (like the old professional reel-to-reel recorders) endless loop cassettes. Very unique. I’ve been planning on making a CD/DVD replacement for it, but it is just another TO-DO on my list of thousands.
T. Z.: Thanks for the info. I’ll have to look around for those other items.
I’m glad to hear they went to good hands at least. John Glab is one of the credits to the Model Railroading Hobby. (But my opinion of him that both him and I are are C&O nuts.)
If the automatic load and exhaust cut off is not to your liking, you can turn on “Sound of Power” under the Q1a, Revolution, and Titan sound decoders by QSI You can “Notch up or down the chuff sound without affecting speed.” They claim in the manual it allows you to do things like apply more labor when going up a hill, or less when going down, or when starting off.
I however have not used it.
The tsunami offers this option. I think it sounds pretty good…
Guy
Video of my PFM sound in my Tenshodo GN R-2 2-8-8-2:
My GN railroad:
Video of a GN R-2 2-8-8-2 with PFM sound.
I have one complete with all of the tapes and have never used it on a layout. PM me about it if you are interested in it.
CZ
I am surprised no one has mentioned it, but the PFM sound system II has one of the finest DC throttles ever made. It should also be noted that the PFM sound system is analog, as is sound itself. One will hear many nuances in the sound that are lost with digital conversion. Very similar to comparing music on vinyl to that on digital media. Through large high quality speakers, the PFM unit sounds amazing.