It would seem to me that since Penn Station track capasity is at its absolute limit and Grand Central is hemmed in and land locked that a 3rd station is needed. London has about 5 grand terminal stations and Chicago has had 5 to 7 big stations at one time that trying to stuff 10 Million Passengers a day into two stations and hundreds of commuter trains is insane. Covid is almost over and traffic will come nack
OK, time to bell the cat. Where would you suggest it be located? That London has so many stations is a legacy of the 19th century when land was relatively cheap and easy to obtain. NYC is some of the most expensive land on earth and given the resistance you’ll get from the NIMBY’s, BANANA’s and Eco-Freaks, it’s almost impossible to push through a mega-project like that.
The last thing NYC, the metrpolitan area and AMTRAK need is a second California type boongogle that will be gazillions over budget, be amazingly late and deliver much less than promised as the project gets pared back. If you want to spend money on the NEC, fix what’s already there.
Maybe interopratability should be established between Amtrak and the New York subway system!
runs and hides!
Project will probably start about year 2090 and be built under Central Park with entrances on 59th street, 5th avenue and 8th avenue. Rail tunnels under Hudson to NJ to join CSX west of Hudson line and under East river to come out just north of SSY yard. Station will need to be deep. Can connect to the West side track to Albany. Tracks connect to LIRR, Hell Gate line and MNRR north of NYG.
EDIT: Costs $138B in 2022 constant dollars.
Makes far more sence to add capacity and improve efficiency at the two extsting stations.
Efficiency: HNew Haven Line Metro-North throgh routed with Jersey Transit and LIRR throgh routed with NJ Transit. LIRR also thropugh -routed with Metro-North Hudson Line.
Add capacity. Third level is being added for LIRR at GCT. Ar Penn, the stub-tracks now used exclsively by NJT, should also go to Long Island. possibly needing a third pair of tunnels.
And a second level, nderneath, as was done at GCT, may be possible.
You could always add more tracks to the Transmanhattan Expressway project, which would come across the Palisades at high level and cross Manhattan ‘in the air’ at the Manhattan Valley, around 125th St, connecting to the Triborough and the Hell Gate route across the East River.
The issue is not the crossing and station per se; it’s the arrangements of holding yards either side of the active station facilities, and the arrangements to get passengers ‘across the platforms’ on and off the trains to reduce dwell. The latter becomes interesting in any arrangement where multiple close-spaced tracks are located, whether or not at ground level, as you can’t have passengers crossing the active tracks.
Investment in better ‘vertical transit systems’ (mostly escalators/motorstairs) is worth many billions of ‘new terminal’ ARC-style enlargements.
No way! We don’t want the trash from Long Island to have easier access to New Jersey than they already do!
I liked the old idea of 1900 with a huge bridge across the Hudson and a giant elavated Pryamid Station on the East side
Oh, that’s mean!
Anyway, man am I glad I got the hell out of New Jersey in 1987! The only thing I miss about NJ is the food!
And when my sister-in-law and her husband retire and move out the only people I’ll know up there are all in the cemeteries. One less reason to go north.
The trains may run through but unless you’re willing to go through difficult and time-consuming negotiations with the Operating Brotherhoods, you will have crew changes at Penn Station and GCT.
The reason for so many stations in London was a function of numerous private railways pre-consolidation, same as Paris. Same as pre-war Berlin.
Isn’t there already a plan to expand capacity at Penn Station? Last I heard longer platfroms, and reconfiguring some of the platforms to add a few more inbound/outbound tracks.
Penn Station is hemmed in The Problem with Commuter Trains is capital investment in equipment that is only used twice a day. Storing that and paying railroad crews 12 hour wages and benefits is a money drainer.The PRR and NYC was using cars over 50 years old. Matter of fact Metra is using Budd and Pullman cars from 1970 something from Rock Isalnd days
Transmanhattan Expressway? Say what? Did someone dig up you-know-who?
No I guess he isn’t “Alive!” But I admit I did a “Huh?” so I looked it up. Never knew it existed. Who was it that said that reading these forums isn’t an educational experience?
The Trans-Manhattan Expressway is an east–west limited-access highway in New York City, in the United States. It traverses the northern end of the borough of Manhattan at one of its narrowest points, running for 0.81 miles (1.30 km) in a cut through Washington Heights.[3] The highway connects the George Washington Bridge over the Hudson River
The Transmanhatten Expressway is a 1 mile freeway in a cut and tunnel that connects the GW bridge and a the Geothe Washington Bridge Bus station that only sees 20,000 commuters a day on the North Tip of Manhattan Aka I 95
Swapping crews takes less time than changing ends, and through operstion means one train at the platforms instead of two.
Penn has less “capacity” in terms of track than GCT. But Penn Central shifted all Boston btrains from GCT yo Penn and made nearly all through trains to Washington because this fact.
If you want to see a successful example of what Dave was saying, look at Philadelphia where they brought together opposing Reading and PRR commuter runs into thru routes. (And in NY the routes are already physically connected.)
Metra runs some ex-CNW bilevels built from late 50s through early 60s.
Metra runs some ex-CNW bilevels built from late 50s through early 60s.