There is a clear market preference in room accommodations for en suite bathrooms currently missing in quantity from NRPC product offerings. Long ago the Pullman Company figured out that it was a more efficient use of space to provide the restrooms within each accommodation instead of in end of car areas, and this logic was mirrored in the Viewliner prototypes of the mid-1980’s, which were only built a decade later in the mid-1990’s.
As has been suggested before, the pot-o-money approach of the current top level budget does not impart discipline in regards to developing updated product offerings or promote consideration of added marginal revenue above marginal costs as overhead multiplies are always applied though little additional overhead should be needed. There seems as well to be a concerted effort by some politicians to classify fledgling attempts by NRPC to generate higher fares, with a better product on the National Network, as somehow out of bounds.
Setting this aside, consider the revenue of the various configurations at approximately the low bucket fares for two adults per room (take off $0.12/mile from the revenue below for single travel - which the Roomette is more aligned toward). Note; fares for the bedrooms go higher than $1/mile in peak periods. The marginal cost of an extra car is about $3/car-mile, inclusive of capital, so the question as always is how much of the fixed train costs can be covered by net revenue from additional (marginal) cars.
Viewliner I [(3) x $0.75/mile + (12) x $0.45/mile] x 85% ocp = $6.50/car-mile
So what do you think of the new VIA Rail “Prestige Class” Sleeper arrangement. I think it is pretty cool and have long thought Amtrak should try multiple class sleeping car arrangements more in line with this type of thing that VIA Rail is offering. I think the current Amtrak First Class could be upgraded a little with a additional premium added to the charge for the Compartment.
Additionally, why I don’t see LD Rail Passenger Carriers doing this outside of the Rocky Mountaineer. I think there is plenty of room for luxury add-ons for Amtrak such as door to door baggage handling in some markets like what some of the airlines are attempting in some markets. Amtrak could enter a few joint marketing agreements as well where if you make a rental car reservation via Amtrak you get 15% off the rental plus Amtrak gets a small % of the total rental fee charged. Items like that I think could boost Amtraks bottom line a little more in the LD Train area.
This thing reminds me of the “Silver Bird” series of 5 cpt, 6 DBR cars used by the Burlington on the CZ and DZ. Until the mid 90’s, we used a few of them on Amtrak no. 52-53. Yes, there is enough space to fit 11 rooms into that space. The proposed design is supposed to also include an attendant’s room. I’m prepared to be proved wrong, but I suspect you won’t fit 11 rooms plus an attendant’s room into that length unless you eliminate such frivolous things as electrical lockers, equipment lockers, a linen locker, a public restroom, and a coffee station. I suppose the coffee station could be eliminated.
Too often, efficiency plans ignore some of the unique needs that inconveniently come along with operation of passenger service and passenger equipment.
I believe everything is there, (1) ADA room with a Keurig sized coffee stand outside in the crook at the end of the hall, (11) Double Bedrooms, and (1) attendent room which includes a shower as well. The electrical locker is on the end wall of the car by the attendent room, as is a storage space. There is also room for storage under ever other room with hall access. I don’t see the need for a public restroom when every room has a full bathroom.
I have not had the opportunity to ride in the remodeled VIA sleepers. My understanding is that they use more space than the current Amtrak Deluxe Bedroom, now just a Bedroom. An important thing about the proposed design is is uses less room, about 70" per room along the car as opposed to 81", while still having a full bathroom. Most importantly there would seem to be a better perception of space due to the way the annex is arranged and a full sized sink and toilet is used in the plans.
I do really wish there were some value added services offered, such as door to door luggage (start with NYC). I suspect the reality is that there is so little sleeper rack stock to sell, it pratically seems to sell itself. I wonder say for example if the Crescent has room in the marketplace to float 6-8 sleepers after prorating from 1970’s levels of operation and current population.
Now you guys are finally getting it. Grow revenues by providing more perks and space. I have pointed to via rail rebuilt park cars as a way to sell more space at a premium price In previous postings. Their is a market for this kind of service in the silver service.
I really don’t want to be contrarian here, but I remain unconvinced.
I still don’t see any linen locker, or any designated “clean” linen locker space sufficient to hold the large numbers of sheets, pillow cases, towels, washcloths, etc., plus a few extra pillows and extra blankets and one extra of each type/size of mattress. I don’t see a designated storage area for dirty linen to be held pending removal from the train. I don’t see a supply cabinet for a mop and other cleaning supplies, plus extra soap, extra toilet tissue and paper towels, etc. I don’t see a separate (per F.D.A. requirements) storage area for extra coffee cups, creamers, sweeteners, stirrers, tea bags, etc. In the coffee machine area, I don’t see a place to display a supply of coffee cups, creamers, etc. so that they will be available. I don’t see adequate space for a trash receptacle in the coffee service area.
I don’t know whether Amtrak foresees a future need for stepboxes. I do know the A.D.A. requirements call for entry/egress to be at station platform level. However, some stations are served by both low- and high-level equipment, and inevitable track settling will always cause some station platforms to poorly match entry heights. I suspect there will always be some need for stepboxes and bridge plate ramps for wheelchair passengers. The stepbox and the bridge plate have to be stored someplace. I don’t see allowance for that.
The restroom/shower for the attendant’s room shows no door. I presume there is one. Does it slide, or swing inward, or swing outward? Swinging into the toilet stall probably would be impractical because there’s no room. Swinging outward means closing up the bed every time the restroom is used. A sliding door would probably interfere with the entry door. Is there a sink for the att
The last time I rode the VIA train between Jasper and Prince Rupert. Silver Class was completely empty and me and my Sister and one other passenger were the only passengers in Totem Class. It was nice to have the train with only three passengers on it but in that case…Silver Class didn’t make a difference.
Not to be picky, but OBS should have also noted that the cadets at West Point (“The Long Grey Line”) and several other military academies (VMI, the Citadel) also wear grey. Feldgrau (field grey, actually a greenish grey) was the traditional German regular army uniform since 1907. Not the “Nazi uniform” as their organizations, such as the SS wore black and the SA tan-khaki uniforms.
I certainly meant no disrespect to the men and women of West Point, VMI, The Citadel, et. al. Actually, the comments that went around at the time rose out of a visceral, negative reaction from O.B.S. personnel at the time, and I think we unanimously were looking for negative images to make our point to Management. The positive image of those cadets probably never occurred to anybody. As for subtleties in shadings of gray, the point was a general one. And it’s true that very fervent Nazis like the S.S. wore black. Nevertheless, the German Army represented and fought hard for the German Nazi government, so the connection is there.
I wonder how many O.B.S. personnel had any contact with Military Academy (either United States or South Carolina) cadets. I have known four graduates of the Citadel–one was my brother, who was a veteran and so was excused from wearing a uniform and from drilling, and I met the other three after they had graduated and no longer wore the uniform. I did know of “the Long Grey Line.”
I appreciate the correct naming of the Citadel; all too many people do not know that “the” is a part of the name. The subdivision where I lived for almost thirty-nine years is named “Academy Park.” I lived on the mis-named West Point Drive (which is confusing to anyone who thinks it is the western part of Point Drive); there is another mis-named street–Annapolis, and one named Citadel.
I don’t see your point. I ridden on the same train when it was full. And I am not referring to silver class but the new service they began this year.
Hard to compare the via operation to Amtrak’s NYC ( northeast corridor population ) the silver service trains handle two to three sleepers on a regular basis with no special marketing or equipment.
I think this is just another of the good, or at least plausible, inovations discussed on these forms over the years.
The real shame is that Amtrak just seems so oblivious.
I wonder if there is a way to collect these ideas and give them some decent exposure so that they might exert enough pressure on Amtrak to get them to at least wake up.
I suppose the storage for coffee cups would be in the room or alternately they would be individually wraped under the shelf with the Keurig machine. I had envisioned a vertical tree of storage cabinets, and shelves for the coffee stand, and of course with the Keurig any flavor is available. The bridge plate hangs against the end wall.
Yes, the drawing is a high level sketch (though it is not in the resolution I had it in natively, will try to improve the resolution - PM me and I can email you the PDF from AutoCAD). The attendant room is a bit larger than the current room in width (about 42"), so there is a bit more floor/foot space than currently provided. Yes, there would be a sliding door to the attendant shower/toilet, and the bed has to be up to use it. It would not interfere with the entry door. I had planned a 35" wide shower area there. I guess one of the larger conceptual questions is why could the 87’ length of the Acela coaches not be used instead of the 85’ standard car.
The beds are full sized twins (38" wide), so the sense of scale is probably skewed relative to the current narrow beds. A storage locker could be provided at every other room, under the crosswise sofa/bed, with a door to the aisle. There should be more storage space in total, not less. For long term storage, say for parts like spare windows or furniture replacements, the undercar lockers in the V-II design could be used.
Conceptually, this design moves more space to private rooms, instead of common facility areas like shared restrooms and shower areas. This is the way to get more revenue per mile and meet the expectations of a larger portion of the public.
Taking the role of the non-professional iconoclast (thanks, JK!) my comment is this. Why does Amtrak need yet another sleeping car design on top of those it already has, especially at a time when everywhere else sleeping car services are being reduced because they serve so few customers? Fast corridors are the correct direction.
Well, I’ve never said the idea is impossible, but I’m still not ready to jump on the bandwagon.
Your linen locker solution is to have 6 or 7 separate linen lockers under the lower berths. I don’t like having the clean linen stored in an area on the floor, which is prone to collect dust etc. Accessing linen items will be a cumbersome, backbreaking chore after the first three or four attempts. Remember, some of the items in those floor-level lockers will be all the way in the back. On those occasions when the stock arrives five or ten minutes before boarding (and don’t think it doesn’t happen), it will be impossible to get that many individual lockers stocked. Also, I still don’t see where there is a separate area for soiled linens.
Maybe your detailed drawings will show the attendant’s room more clearly. Until then, the sliding door still concerns me.
One issue I had not mentioned has to do with the berths that run parallel to the rails. It’s been a long time since I worked those “Silver Bird” cars, so I’d forgotten. The upper berths were always prone to jamming halfway between the stowed and open position. I don’t know how to correct this, but the old Budd design would not be appropriate. I’ve also operated another design for these uppers, which I think were on U.P. cars. They were slightly better, but sometimes still gave problems. Some entirely new arrangement would have to be devised.
I guess my objections could mostly be addressed by eliminating one room and using that space to provide a little more space for the things that concern me. I know this cuts into revenue, but it’s the only alternative that makes sense to me.
By the way, where is the PA box? It has to be at the vestibule end.
Tom
Edit: After writing the above, I returned to the floor plan to see which is the vestibule en
Whether they need it or not – I’m fascinated to watch a design engineer and a very experienced Amtrak guy ‘dialoguing’ and, in the process, working through a tremendous number of design desiderata in a short time. I’d be interested to see how many of these points, details, and thoughts could be applied to arrangements within the ‘modular’-compatible Viewliner shell.
Addressing the wider point: Has it not been said repeatedly that there’s a big ‘hole’ between two classes of sleeper service on Amtrak, and a service that fills this might attract considerable ‘new business’?
I also think that most of the ‘fast corridor’ trains are likely to get funded in large part with state and regional money – as they should be. The LD trains are much more reliant on finding operating models that cover ‘more’ of their costs, and I encourage any thoughtful effort, be it in operations, food service, sleepers, or ‘perquisites’ that make travel more effective out of proportion to expense, that makes the LD service less ‘politically undesirable’…
I was trying to address the “wider point” AFAIK. I am wondering just how settled is the issue of a 'big hole" between two classes of sleeper service and how you define “considerable new business?”
As far as engineering goes, I failed to see or overlooked any answer to Tom in re: standing room in the crew room to make the bed.
