Peter,
Thanks so much. What a wealth of detail. I’m going to search for pictures of these units on the web. The Railway owner and numbers may be very helpful!
Much appreciation for your efforts!
Cheers and God Bless!
M636C (Peter), Kozzie.
I went to www.railpictures.net
I typed in the railway and locomotive numbers and got nothing. Then I tried typed in Australia and bingo! A lot of nice shots of locomotives and railcar trains, including some of the units that you mentioned! Nice shots of cab interiors too! Some of these are really “cool looking” locomotives as the body styles resemble and yet are uniquely different from locomotives in the U.S.
I noticed again that some of the locomotives have horns mounted on the nose. Is this for mainenance purposes?
Thanks again, fellas!
Cheers to you!
Antonio,
I did neglect that part of your question! I think it started originally in 1955 when the NSW Railways wanted a five chime horn, but they couldn’t put it on the cab roof for clearance reasons. (They had 1500 V DC overhead and small tunnels). The earlier 1500HP units had two single horns located either side of the centreline.
The Commonwealth units built at the same time as the NSW units had that arrangement, possibly just for delivery through NSW, since the Commonwealth never had any serious problems.
Victorian S317 got that arrangement after it was rebuilt with NSW 4204’s cab after a collision.
It’s possible that it reduces cab noise, since the crew is sitting behind the horns, but I think reduced clearance was the original idea.
The NSW MLW built RSC-3s were delivered in 1951 with the horns on the short hood just in front of the cab, which is basically the same position.
Peter
Thanks again, guy!
For body style I think the GT46 CWL is a sharp, rugged looking locomotive that at the same time sports a cab with clean body lines.
The QR 2510 class is another neat looking unit with a very “roomy” cab. I wonder why U.S roads didn’t adopt similar locomotives.
The double ended “E-units” are quite a sight! Seems like it could have been practical for American use.
Thanks again, and cheers to you M636C and Kozzie!
[:D] Hey Antonio! Good to hear Queensland Rail mentioned and not from me as usual…heh heh…good to see you are looking at OS rail [;)]
I have quesiton that is off topic from this thread, but I don’t see an email address for you so I will pester you here heh heh. [:)]
Looking at where you are in Tampa (on a map), there doesn’t seem to be a direct rail link from you down to Miami, or does the line running north east from Tampa have a diversion that branches off?
Dave
(Kozzie)
Baldwin built a group of double ended cab units for the Central of New Jersey, in what is usually called their "baby face’ style. They were quite similar to the Australian units but bigger. It would have been good to see a double ended “shark nose” but even Baldwin gave up on double cabs after the CNJ units
There were some locomotives built for Egypt, EMD model KK-16, that were very similar to double end E-9 units, but they had two eight cylinder engines rather than two twelve cylinder engines. Only one order of those was built before they decided to go with single 16 cylinder engines.
Peter
Antonio FP45–the diesel double enders are practical, but are perceived as not economical (in today’s dollars, about $20-30K US for that second cab). With all the turning facilities the RRs had, that made sense, and in a lot of locations, the entire train got turned anyway at the end of the trip. Plus, early on, a lot of the roads paired their A units to build what was effectively a double ended 4000 +/- HP unit (E/PA etc. units) or more if a booster was in between, or other combinations (F, FA, etc.) to get to the same end. CNJ had a few pax double enders built by Baldwin, but to my knowledge they’re the only ones that bit.
Now with electrics, that’s an entirely different story.
Come on, Dave, we’ve all never been known to go off topic, have we???
Speaking of going off topic, Dave and Pete–had a meeting with a client today who turned out to be from Canberra. He says he hopes all you guys down under are enjoying a nice autumn.
[#offtopic]
Hey drephpe [:)] I just thought I’d get in first, heh heh, [:)] before I asked Antonio my question.
Autumn, well, our sub-tropical version of it here, in south-east Queensland is, sadly, no leaves turning gold, red etc like the northern end of the “up over” crew.[V]
I reckon it would be close to Ed’s Autumn in southern Texas.
But we have definite relief from the summer heat already.
However, Peter is much farther south (read cooler) than I, so I’ll let him describe his Autumn. (I think he said he’s in Canberra - south AND higher up! [8D])
Cheers
Dave
(Kozzie)
I still think they are beautiful locomotives, good old bulldog noses. [;)]
He must be talking about RI 750 & 751[(-D]
In all seriousness, the old E’s do look nice. And the Aussie double end version, which also looks nice, though, reminds me of the mutt electric GN built using the 2 F-unit bodies. I keep looking at the unit from OZ and trying to figure out where the pans went!
But if you really want to see a nose that actually could have come off a bulldog, check out Katy 401B (the infamous “B” unit).
Hey Kozzie,
Thanks. Just looking at the pictures of Australian locomotives I can really appreciate the body style and mechanical differences. I will be building an HO scale layout in the not too distant future (hopefully). While it will be mostly prototypical, I can see a scenario where GM built a “GT-46 CWL styled” unit for an Austrailian road, the deal fell through, and my fictitious line purchases it at a bargain price after haggling with GM about equipping it with controls on the right side. Hey, I can fantasize! [:D]
To get to Miami from Tampa by rail, Amtrak takes the former ACL east, just Lakeland, their it swithces over to the line that heads southeast towards Miami. It’s all CSX rails. Trip is about 5 hours. Speeds reach between 70 and 80 on some stretches.[;)]
M636C, Drephpe,
Yes, I forgot about the double ended Baldwin Baby Face units as I have pictures of them (I’m getting senile at 40!) Good point about A units being coupled end to end and the additional costs involved in double cabbed diesels. Just felt that it really would have made things interesting, but of course railroads have to be practical in equipment purchases.
UPTrain,
Yes, I really like the Bulldog noses too![:)][8D]
Cheers to you all and God Bless!
Yes,
I just went for a walk at lunchtime. We have a lot of imported deciduous trees with leaves turning yellow and brown. It was about 20 degrees C, fine and clear. The Freight Australia oil train had an X class (Clyde EMD G26C) in dark green and an EL class (Goninan GE CM30-8) in Chicago blue and silver. It had backed up so I couldn’t read the loco numbers.
The Victorian Railways had about 25 1500V DC electrics built by English Electric, that were double end cab units, but their noses looked more like an Alco FA. They were painted in the blue and yellow with the “wings” based on early Erie locomotives. So if you looked there, you could find the pantographs. As built they had conventional pantographs, but later they were fitted with a single arm version (only one each) which was said to follow the wire better, and kept the other standard one for emergencies. They were quite similar to the Dutch 1200 class, built to a Baldwin design.
I think the ugliest noses were the ones on old Santa Fe 1 and 10 (which were 1800 HP and were technically E units) They were wrapped up in the rebuilds to E8s in the 80 series, and I bet nobody missed them!
Peter
Peter
AntonioFP45,
There are kits of the Australian built JT42C, now Pacific National 82 class which are available, but no GT46CW kits (PN 90 class) to my knowledge. They are very similar units, but the JT42C has two cabs (ironically for our above discussion).
They are the same overall dimensions, so you could modify a JT42C to a GT46CWL by removing one cab, “stretching” the radiator section slightly, and adding the dynamic brakes at the rear. The Canadian built GT46CWL has standard EMD radiator grilles, while the JT42C has a non standard grille, so you’d have to change that anyway!
Despite being built on opposite sides of the world, the actual cabs (which are isolated cabs) are almost identical.
Peter
To Peter & Kozzie:
I’ll put in my preference for the CLF-CLP class on Australia Southern in the Genesee & Wyoming orange and black. Second generation power with a bulldog nose is hard not to like.
M636C
Regarding those early Santa Fe units. They’re nicknamed the “Shovel Nosed” Diesels. And yes, definetly on the “YIPES! WHAT A FACE!” side.
Typical joke is that these units had a run in with an angry steam engine and the result was that the Santa Fe face was knocked in a few feet! Ouch!
CSSHEGEWISCH - A bit off topic, but, did the Genesee & Wyoming Company take that livery from the Milwaukee Road colours? (Trust me to get back to livery/colour schemes! [;)])
Dave
(Kozzie)
Now that ARG are running the CLFs and CLPs around Sydney, they are attracting more attention. In March I went to their locomotive facility at Clyde, west of Sydney, (usually empty), and found five of them there. They moved two pairs coupled back to back in the bright sunshine into good photo locations (not for us, just to refuel them!) There were two 3100s there (same equipment, same colours in an SD40 style hood unit), so it was already a good day!
An HO resin body kit (or RTR) model is available of the original CL or CLP.
Way back when the CL class was new, one was sent to do trials on the Melbourne-Sydney “Southern Aurora”, an all stainless all sleeper train. Normally they worked about 1000 miles away! It had to pass through Redfern that morning on my way to work. Sadly the “Aurora” arrived at 0900, so it wasn’t due at Redfern until 0855. This meant I’d be late to work! So I waited anyway, and ten minues before the train was due, my company’s engineering manager (who I didn’t know well) saw me and asked what I was doing.
The engineering manager, said, when told, “Oh I’ll wait to see that too!”. CL1 ran through in brilliant sunshine, and we realized that it had just been repainted for the special trip. I took a couple of slides showing the maroon and silver to advantage, and then arrived at work at the same time as the boss!
Even now it’s good to see them!
Peter
To Peter & Kozzie:
Genesee & Wyoming was originally a salt-hauling short line in upstate New York with a small fleet of Alco switchers in the same orange and black. The colors are arranged differently from Milwaukee Road and the orange may be a different shade.
Paul
Guys,
Thanks again for your input! I’m not joking when I say that your posts offer a good learning experience!
10-4![:D][8)][swg][tup]
Kozzie,
Mt. Shasta is north of San Francisco, about four or five hours drive up Interstate 5. It’s a beautiful snow-covered volcano near the state border with Oregon.
Michael
Ben Lomond, California