MRR practice in Europe differs very much from US practice. The following is not meant to make a judgment of whatsoever kind, but just to point out some key issues:
Space
Space is at a premium, because housing is much more expensive. Huge, basement filling layouts are the exception, not the rule. European MRR´s have to develop ingenious ways to find suitable space. Tight radius curves and turnouts are a necessity, though we try to disguise them.
Operation
Operation differs very much from US practice. Europeans tend to focus on passenger service, as that is what we see when we go train watching. In the center of each layout is the passenger station, to a much lesser degree, freight handling facilities and spurs leading to industries. For this reason, the type of operation modeled is also different - we like to see trains run, therefore there is not so much switching operation. Timetable or scheduled operation is also rare, but growing along with MRR clubs. Loop to loop layouts or that good old oval are still the main track principle.
A more typical layout design looks like this ( an idea I am currently working on for a friend - 1st cut)
Track
There is a vast variety of track available, mostly with code 100 and even bigger rails. Wheels have still those pizza-cutter flanges, as the European NEM Standard is not as refined as NMRA´s RP25. Operation is much more reliable, even with track that is not laid carefully. Hand laying track is rare.
Equipment/Accessories
A vast number of bigger and smaller brands offer a tremendous variety of steam , diesel and electrical locos, as well as passenger and freight cars. As an example, ROCO nearly covers all European countries. Most of the locos and cars are R-T-R
Interesting perspectives, and mostly in line with what I sense from glancing at Continental Modeler magazine from time to time.
One aspect you don’t cover – do favorite eras to model differ from ours? It seems like the favorite eras here are the late 1940s to early 1950s so that steam locomotives and early diesels, as well as streamlined and standard passenger cars, can all be run.
Then the more or less present day seems the next popular, particularly the interest in the latest locomotives.
Everything else beyond that, such as 1862, 1920, or 1965, seems more like a niche interest, with the possible exception of Colorado 3’ narrow gauge.
Ulrich, a nice set of observations. To preface my comments, I grew up in the UK and had Hornby trains as a kid. For the last 22 years I have lived in the US and now have the proverbial basement empire, though not nearly as big as most! I still travel to the UK and mainland Europe fairly regularly.
Weathering: It seems to me that the idea of factory pre-weathered freight cars and locomotives has been popular in Europe for some time. Certainly, I was surprised to see such things in stores in the UK, long before any mention of this idea here in the US.
Era: I don’t have the details to hand, but European models have a system of noting the era of the model using a number if I remember rightly. In the US we use terms like 'transition era" to describe the time when steam was phasing out and diesel was coming in.
Cost of Hobby: It seems that the UK with Hornby and Bachmann selling “trainset” grade models as well as higher end models, that the hobby cost for OO scale is a bit more reasonable than the much higher cost models from companies like Marklin. I am always stunned by the cost of model trains when visiting Switzerland and Germany.
Strangely enough, though, it seems to me that model trains are far more in the public eye in Europe. Many toy stores carry model trains, whereas here in the US it is not nearly as common to see in a toy store, or toy department.
the Germans have a tendency to over-organize things quite a bit. This goes also for model railroading. The different eras are classified as follows:
Epoch I: Early steam era until 1920 (Foundation of Deutsche Reichsbahn)
Epoch II: The heydays of railroading - 1920 - 1949( Foundation of Deutsche Bundesbahn)
Epoch III: 1949 - 1968 (Introduction of computerized numbering scheme)
Epoch IV: 1968 - 1990/1994 (Merging of Deutsche Bundesbahn/Deutsche Reichsbahn into Deutsche Bahn)
Epoch V: 1990 - today
Classification for Austria and Switzerland is very similar!
It seems to me, that epoch III and IV are the most modeled eras, as you can enjoy steam as well as oldimer and newer electrics, as well as contemp. diesels. The end of the steam era took place in 1977 (West Germany) and 1982 (East Germany).
That’s mostly in line with my experience in Germany in the 70’s. Nearly every layout I saw had clean immaculate locos and rolling stock and the track was virtually spotless. My layout (which I had built here before going to Germany) was something new and different to many who looked at it. They were fascinated by the flat distressed paint jobs for the most part and the rusty rails were a constant attention getter. While many liked what they saw they siad they wouldn’t do it to their own because it just wasn’t done there. Weathering seemed to be pretty much a US practice.
Nice topic! There is some big differences between the US and Europe when it comes to the building bit as well, there seems to be more demand in the US for craftsman kits, wich in turn leads to weathering and so on and so forth. I think that the US way is more “interesting”, and what has probably captured my interest.
Wouldn´t it be nice if the US mfg´s started to use the era-classifications. Then it would be much easier to know when the equipment was used.
It would be great to be browsing in a hobby shop and know from the box what era something would come from. This would be particularly helpful when starting out in the hobby.
I gather there is also a lot of difference between European and UK modeling. I have drop in on the RMWeb forum, a UK based forum, and I would say that UK modeling is significantly different from what you describe in Germany, with much more emphasis on kit building and detailing and less RTR, especially with scenery and structures. there seems to be more emphasis on weathering. After reading your description of your view of modeling, a comment I read on that forum really jumped out at me. They were discussing using RTR or stock built structures, scenery and accessories vs. scratchbuilt or kitbashed ones and the comment was made that if you used a lot of stock structures, trees and accessories, it would look like a “German” layout.
Another thing that struck me was the differences in scales and gauges in the UK (HO, OO, O , 7mm and a rainbow of narrow gauges based using standard gauge track from other scales). Are German modelers also using a wide array of scale/gauge combinations?
Manufacturers like Marklin, Roco etc. use pictograms on their web pages and sometimes packaging to explain the product, also which “epoch” the models belongs to.
Pardon me for getting carried away with the topic, but there is one more issue I have nearly forgotten to address - it´s couplers!
In the US, all of the couplers, be it Kadee (my all-time favorite), Accumate, McHenry etc. are more or less compatible. In Europe we are light years behind this. Each manufacturer still has his own, proprietary system, which is, naturally, not at all compatible. The NEM (Europe´s counterpart to the US NMRA) has, at last and alas, achieved, that coupler mounting is standardized, so fitting your favorite coupler is done in seconds.
The looks of whatever coupling system is just awkward and has no resemblance to either the old hook-and-screw couplers used by the prototype, nor the newer Scharffenberg couplers used on European highspeed trains. There are scale hook-and-screw couplers in HO available, but automatic coupling/uncoupling is a no-no if you intend to use them. They look dang real, though.
Nice idea but it still leaves lot of room for errors. Better that manufacturers should label cars with unique info like first year built, last year of common use, rather than some system of eras.
The problem with set eras is the dividing points. what about a car or loco type developed right at the end of an set “era”? It is not correct for the begining of that era, which could be 5, 10 or more years before?
Or, to than classify it in the next era because that is the era of common use, would raise questions about first production, accuracy of use by modelers of earlier periods, etc.
I can just see the discussions on here now.
I use a single year, if it did not exist in that calender year, you won’t find it here.
Indeed, a most interesting thread from our friend Ulrich. I do think, however, that he has somewhat glossed over what, from my own observation of European model railroading, is the thing that distinctly sets it appart from the way the hobby is practiced over here in The States. While most U.S. hobbyists model some sort of broad section of a rail line, implying that the layout represents a wide expanse of territory, a very high percentage of European modelers seem to concentrate much more on depicting a single interesting scene and its immediate surroundings. I’ve seen quite a number of small British “layouts” that are simply a single amazingly detailed station scene, with totally unscenicked, viewblocked, fiddle yards at either end. It reminds me somewhat of single HO or N-Track modules but executed to a far, far higher standard. These relatively small scenes are often museum quality, many of which are head and shoulders above U.S. layouts appearing in the magazines. Many of these European train scenes are so well done that, without careful examination, they can easily be taken for the real thing!
I believe the one very detailed scene with unscenicked viewblocked fiddle yards at either end is a British speciality.
They do it darned well, too, as can be seen by looking e.g. at the layouts of Jon Grant or looking at rmweb.co.uk.
Another thing that is popular at least some places in Europe is modular layouts where each modeler build one or two standard modules (e.g. according to the FREMO H0 standard), and then a bunch of people get together to run trains on a bigger combined layout.
Here is a picture from the invitation to upcoming 2009 FREMO meet by modeler group “Skaarerbanens venner”) at Gardermoen airport near Oslo at the end of October:
Planned era for the meet is august 1959, theme is SE Norwegian mainline towards the border with Sweden (so one also can run Swedish rolling stock on international trains), plus side lines, the attendance is capped at max 50 participants, and they will be using rolling stock with RP-25 wheels, and run freight using car cards and waybills.
Here is a link to a web page with some pictures of a smaller setup of FREMO modules at another occation:
Era names and dates make sense only if they are associated with commonly agreed upon historical events. For instance, I model 1944-45 (late WWII) only, with certain throwbacks for special occasions. So I’m not really a “transition era” modeler, as I don’t have anything after 1945, but I do have a number of NH diesels on my railroad, as the NH was among the first to dieselize. I also don’t model 1939-43, which is also WWII. I have to pay attention to freight and passenger car history to make sure I don’t have the wrong cars on the railroad. It would be a great thing if all rolling stock was packaged with the years on the box, but the freight cars are marked by year anyway (BLT and NEW dates). Some equipment was built earlier than the NEW date, as the NEW date shows only when the car was last rebuilt.
Large basement empires are very much the exception on this side of the Big Murk as well. [:)]
If Europeans seem to gravitate toward purely passenger service depictions (and why wouldn’t they in view of their wonderful pax systems with all the exposure they get?) then it stands to reason that they would model what they see…and that is carefully maintained and groomed rolling stock and engines. Weathering seems to have been more evident (more being a relative term) in N. America.
European and British railways developed in slightly different ways with different requirements than they did in N. America. Per J. Vance, Jr. (1995), rights of way in England were more easily available, and generally easier in grade with modest tonnages. Established markets were in place. In, N. America, the railroads actually created the various subs and communities as they went along and had more challenges due to distances and terrain, including making heavier and more powerful engines to take those tonnages over steeper grades. The “look” and “feel” for railroading in the two places is substantially different, and that is plain to those who have witnessed and used them.
Any classification system has a utility commensurate with its acceptance and enduring nature as the subject area, itself, develops and is understood. If the demarcations become too abstract or devolved from advances in learning about the nature of the subject, those demarcations will eventually fall into disuse as they are supplanted by others with more utility. We should understand that demarcations that make sense in one milieu may not make sense in another. European rail history doesn’t necessarily closely mirror N. American rail history.
Lastly, I sure admire the abilities in both places in those who have mastered their various ways of modell
I must just be really lucky to live where I do. There are dozens, yes dozens of American Model Railroad Basement Empires within a 30 mile drive of where I sit. And that only counts the guys I know. There may well be many more.
Here in the Mid Atlantic of the USA the “average” home is between 1500 and 2500 sq ft and most have basements below not counted in that size. So many, many people of average means have the space.
After that you only need the interest, the means and the blessing of the Mrs.
In our local round robin group of about 15 regulars, at least half have a basement sized layout or are in the process of building one. Everyone of these is within 10 miles of me.
Our little group is far from being the beginning or end of modeling in our area.
There are to be sure lots of guys with smaller layouts, but 500 to 1000 sq ft or bigger layouts are quite common.
Every fall there is a regional open house circuit of layouts from DC to Phily, a total of 50 to 100 I would say, most pretty large, all open to vistors, for most of November and early December.
Within a short drive from here there are also some well known, well published mega layouts, some of those layout owners post here from time to time.
And many of the unpublished “hidden” large layouts around here are as good as the ones in the magizines.
From the first time I saw MR.magazine in a hobby shop, 45 years ago, I was stunned. I must have been very lucky indeed; it covered the first presentation ever of the CS by John Armstrong. So different from those Marklin multiple loop (or lap??) plans. So many new things like numbered switches, code 100 track and RP25 wheels. And Linn Westcott daring to tell readers how to build an interesting pike. (or a boring pike: every track parallel to the wall, etc)
In Germany exists Miniatur Bahnen, the German MR-magazine; I bought my first some 50 years ago. Their view on scenery building was amazing. PitPeg wrote a booklet in which he made four points I’ll never forget.1) get rid off the table top. Their is more under the RR the above. 2) RR’s are built in the foothills, not over the mountains(peaks) 3) RR’s are build outside existing city’s and have their own environment. (no tracks along midieval buildings) and 4) don’t over do selective compression. The last one becomes clear when you remember the good old day’s: building the Mont Blanc on the corner of a 6x4. and running modern coaches over 14" curves. He was one of the first looking for big industry’s in stead of barnsized cuties. The booklet dates from 1962 and also showed the wonders of flextrack, like easements, big radii and even cosmetic curves.
European railroads may be looking great, but are very hard to model. I am living near the old main line to the east from Amsterdam. Trains are going as far as Berlin, in former days to Moscow. Today 11 trains to the east and 11 trains to west are (level) crossing the roads in Bussum; every hour of the day from 6 am till midnight. Not to mention extra’s. My little son is like me, daddy wait… just till the next train. All running 70 miles an hour if possible. Imagine the size of the staging yard you’ll need and how brief their appearence will be on a small pike. New
I agree here with CNJ and Ulrich. Those modular layouts–which I’m guessing are much greater in detail than anything I’ve seen here—now, mind, I’m talking about where I live. I suspect that a LDE could be turned into such a thing as a ISL—but on a much higher level of detail work. Even the lighting effects are something to behold on these things—[:P]
I received my first copy of MR in 1969, and although I could not really read the text (1 year of English language in school was not sufficient to understand), the pictures I saw put me in a state of awe. Those huge layouts! Those fantastic looking structures. And those highly detailed brass locos! I looked at my Marklin stuff and packed it away for years…
But was, and still is, what I saw and still see published in MR and other fine mags, layout reality? Or are the masterpieces we see the exception, but not the rule?
Paulus Jas has stated, that the average layout (continental Europe) may be still that roughly 2 m by 1 m sized table top layout, single or double lap, two or three sidings and some spurs to a freight station or a loco shed. All manufacturers offer easy to install 1-2-3 track sets to just build that (and my LHS man tells me that this is what is being sold).
How´s that in the US/Canada? Is it the 4 by 8, single lap, 1 siding, 4 - 5 spurs layout made with Atlas Snap-Track or Bachmann E-Z Track? If, so, the difference in average mrr practice would not be that great, would it?
Btw, after pausing for nearly two decades (career, getting married, starting a family, building a home), I tried my long dormant skills on a 2m by 1 m layout, out-and-back design, with a hidden staging yard. For reasons of nostalgia I chose Marklin C-Track and their proprietary digital command system. When it comes to reliability, nothing beats Marklin, IMHO.
I’m not that familiar with continental modelling, but it seems one difference between US and UK model railroads is the scope of what they try to represent. British layouts - even large ones - seem to try to model one particular area, like a junction or a part of a particular city in great detail. In the US, we tend to try to fit five cities into the same space, so a train will sometimes be in two cities at once. I recall a track plan in MR not too long ago that had like three passenger stations for three different cities…on a 4’ x 8’ HO layout !!
The British modellers, probably because they usually have smaller layouts, seem to love superdetailing everything and doing great weathering jobs. British modeller Martyn Welch’s “The Art of Weathering” is the best book I’ve ever seen on weathering.
Owner/Railroad
Epoch V
DC
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