Thanks Richard. This seems to strike a nice balance between the pro and con replies that I’ve had on the freelance vs. prototype debate that I was ‘brave’ (foolish?) enough to start!
You make a good point above and I was wondering if you - or anyone else can recommend a good book/website/resource to start me on the path to learning more about 'the geography and rules of railroading".
Especially of interest would be anything around railroading and pulp and paper as I have decided that my mail industry will be a paper mill.
I have done both. Had my first train at age 6 months for Christmas (my dad was a Santa Fe engineer) and have had trains ever since, or almost 75 years. When I left home I went to HO because of space, and did the freelance thing for several years, creating a railroad called the Mojave Western with subsidaries Oklahoma Northern and another which I would rather forget.
In 1960 I started my first which was proto (I was working for Santa Fe in Topeka HQ) and tore it down in 1969 when I left Santa Fe to go to Kansas City (by this time I had been to IBM school and “were” a programmer analyst. I worked for the Federal Reserve Bank from 1970 until I took early retirement in 1994. Wa still doing Santa Fe and in 1984? after being on layout tours for NMRA national, I went totally Santa Fe but drug my Oklahoma Northern along with it since I was and am modeling Santa Fe in Oklahoma with that one freelance fault.
The Santa Fe still runs in my basement today. I prefer prototype modeling more, but I still have the Oklahoma Northern modeled as a short line connecting to Santa Fe (my one freelance dragalong).
Overall I think I like prototype modeling more and if I was starting over, would stay proto.
This has been stated again and again, but I recently realized that it applied to track plans as well. I spent time looking at PRR track charts, but couldn’t find a prototype I liked. I designed several possible freelanced layouts, but then after looking through every track chart I could get my hads on, I found the PRR’s New Castle and Wolf Creek branches. The only way that I changed the prototype in my track plan was to add another mine to the branches to increase the coal traffic. 4 x 8 is tight for a proto layout, but you could at least model a single town, and I was able to draw a plan that models 2 (!!!) branchlines in 5 by 8 plus a shelf.
No sepcific location, but generally New England scenery on a track plan to fit my available space.
.Layout will be single track mainline, like prototypes around here.
The customers I have chosen to serve fit the local, quary, milk, warehouse, factories.
There are a couple of simple buildings that I would like to scratch build, that the railroad had long since stopped serving when I knew them, but they have meaning to me for other reasons.
Operations, mostly lone wolf, maybe one train circling while I do some switching.
Then I have seen articles on layouts that depict one day in a specific year and are detailed as close as possible for that day. It’s really your choice.
I think one has to look at this from 3 different views:
Pure Prototype- I model a section of a know prototype line and do my best job with selective compression and available models.
The advantage here is after the research, you know what you need. The disadvantage is you are limited to scenes/equipment that fit your era and that actual prototype line you are modeling.
Proto-Freelance - I model a prototype and keep the accuracy of the locomotives/rolling stock ‘true’, but my layout is a ‘what if’ my prototype built from ‘here to there’.
Here you are basically still modeling a particular prototype, but you are not limited to what equipment was actually used. You may be limited to what equipment is appropriate based on the cut-off date of your ‘era’
Freelance - I just build a layout with what I want, and even have my own railroad & paint schemes. I may also add other prototype equipment as I see fit.
Well, just about anything goes. If I want ‘my’ railroad - I paint the trains in ‘my’ paint scheme. If I like both F units and GEVO’s, and a ‘fan trip’ steamer because it looked so cool at the LHS - It’s my layout and I am the boss.
Myself, I am sort of a ‘Proto-Freelance’ type of person. I do like the transition era, and I do like Milw & C&NW secondary lines. My layout is detailed to represent what ‘might have been’ in SW Wisconsin. But I do have a fl
You describe it quite well. Most clubs have a rather ‘eclectic’ collection of models running at any time! There is nothing ‘wrong’ with it. We have one guy who models ‘passenger’ trains. He brings down his very nice model of the UP ‘Pony Express’ or L&N ‘Pan American’ and runs them. He must have 15-16 complete trains that are pretty much accurate in detail/engines/cars. He makes no disparaging comments about the trains some guys run(Amtrak E7A(Model Power) with a collection of ‘beer’ cars behind it. I sort of think of him as an ‘inspiration’ to other club members. Maybe some day, they will build some really nice/accurate trains based on watching his streamliners roll by on the club layout.
For some guys, it’s all they can afford at this time. For others, it is just an expensive ‘habit’ of buying what-ever turned them on that day at the LHS. At least they are all having fun.
My layout features an 81 lineal foot folded dogbone mainline, with one long siding and therefore one only trailing point turnout (I had more but experienced electrical conductivity “issues” with the Kato #6 manual turnouts as the springs on the switch points aged–and you can’t easily lift them up for repair once scenery is in and the track is glued to foam).
The layout is right now 3 scenes, with a mountain that has tunnels through it: a winter scene (could be in the Sierras or anywhere, really) a fall scene, and a desert scene.
As my scenery progresses I hope to add more road specific details (correct signals, correct stations, correct desert plants for a specific region, etc.).
This has allowed me time to change my mind regarding what railroad I want to represent–which has been a journey.
By adding saguaro cactus and other appropriate desert plants, the desert scene can become SP in the Tucson, AZ area if I really want to go there…but my emphasis is on rural “open spaces” of the U.S.–away from the cities. I only have one barn on the layout right now (with a cornfield and pumpkin patch in the fall scene).
Finding the appropriate equipment will be tough indeed. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that Canadian road name before. (But I could be wrong)
Buying painted, unlettered engines is quite easy. Making your own decals with a color laser printer is also easy, and relatively cheap.
A number of people on here make up their own roadname (Sheldon is one with his Atlantic Central) And they make a very nice layout.
Myself, I wanted to do the C&O Piedmont Stub. But I can’t find a Richmond Station model with it’s triple train overpass. And commisioning someone to make one from scratch, would likely cost $5,000 or more. So I freelanced and made my own stub line.
My layout is proto-freelance. I model Conrail last years and Csx, have 1 Conrail SD70Mac and a fleet of Csx engines, and over 50 Csx and leased freight cars but I have no a prototype line.
Gosh i really dont know how to describe mine. My motive power varies GP 50s three road names MP BN CNW. GP 38s Iowa Interstate MP IHB. 4 CB&Q U28B U30B GP35 SD24 and TP&W GP 7. My Freight Cars are all road names. Box cars tank cars flats and such. But it makes me smile and happy. I do have a steamer though i saw the SP daylight 4449 on a weekend drive and liked it and bought it.
When I decided the themes, era, and region of my fantasy railroads, I bought used books and joined Yahoo groups that talked about real prototypes in the era or region.
My modeling is set to reflect 1900 in coastal Oregon. A standard gauge short line was started in the early 1880s from Coos Bay, and was going to extend eastward to tie with another line in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming to form yet another transcontinental. Coos Bay (actually just inside the inlet is called Charleston) would become a major port, being the best harbor between San Francisco and Seattle/Tacoma. The Picture Gorge & Western has been completed as far east as Roseburg (took the southern route through the coastal mountains), where it ties to the Oregon & California (in my fantasy world the O&C remains independent of the SP).
A logging railroad (3ft gauge) was build eastward from Port Orford to tap the highly valued Port Orford cedar, as well as the redwoods. The lumber was shipped south from the doghole port of Port Orford to San Francisco, with occasional shipments of the special cedars to Japan. The logger saw the benefits of becoming a common carrier, and was extended to reach the PG&W at Lebanon (doesn&
Why is this a disadvantage? You are biasing your answer based on your preferences. Saying that it is a disadvantage is just as bad as saying freelancing is a disadvantage.
If you are interested in prototype operation then this isn’t a disadvantage, its actually an advantage. It prevents me from wasting hundreds of dollars on a spur of the moment purchases. Wow, that Reading Crusader set is really neat. Should I buy it cause its really cool and I model the RDG? Nope, not in my era. Just saved $600.
Read the forums. The people having problems fitting the Big Boys on the 4x8 layouts aren’t the people who are trying to model a prototype faithfully, its the people who are freelancing. The people who can’t figure out what mix of industries to put on their layout aren’t the prototype modelers. Its the freelancers.
Not saying freelancing is bad or that shouldn’t be done. But it does create its own set of problems and has its own set of disadvantages.
Dave,I think a lot of modelers doesn’t understand what freelancing really is…A hodge podge collection of locomotives is not freelancing by a long shot no more then protolancing is freelancing…Naming your layout and using (say) B&M locomotives is not freelancing.
Freelancing takes just as much discipline and research as does modeling a specific railroad.
As a example…A lot of modelers doesn’t really understand the Chessie and the way it should be modeled.If you(general speak) are modeling Chessie(B&O) then you should follow up with B&O style signals.If modeling Chessie(C&O) you should use C&O style signals and the same applies to WM.Even modeling the N&W after 1961 has its own set of rules like the Chessie.The list gets longer with each merger.Same applies to railroad specific buildings.
Now if your freelance railroad operates over (say) exPRR trackage then you should use PRR type signals.Now if your freelance railroad operates over its own track(like the V&O and UB) then there are disciplines that must be followed.
Even layout planing has specific disciplines beyond the normal LDEs…
We haven’t touch the selection of locomotive and freight cars or building designs for a freelance or prototype railroad.
Maybe in the end such things should be overlooked for sanity’s sake? [^o)]
I agree, there is the one extreme of prototype modeling, where everything is on the model as exactly as possible to the real thing, then there is another extreme of running whatever suits without regard to a specific or even general time frame, region, railroad purpose, season, or railroad business practices. In between are about an infinite number of shades of gray, and probably pretty much all of us.
Nobody made me the judge of what is right, better, or more proper. It is, after all, a hobby and different aspects appeal to different people.
I spent time researching a geographic area (the Raton Pass area), a time period (fall 1958) and then created a plausible set of business decisions for a railroad that might have existed at that time and place. Along the way answering questions about how this mythical company turns a buck, what its equipment preferences are (mostly Alco locomotives), once I get the empire built enough to begin operating, what the various makeup of the trains will be (and where they will be going). That is, when I don’t just launch one or two and let them chase their tails because it is that kind of day. My way is not more right or wrong than the OPs or anybody else, as long as it makes me happy and keeps me engaged.
On the subject of methods, I’m not going to switch, but I like the idea a few have embraced of modeling a fallen flag but changing history so the railroad survived and exists today. That is yet another set of research and assumptions to run with.
There are a lot of ways to do this model railroading thing.
Larry, I think the hook to the hobby is the enjoyment, the long-term appeal is doing something that keeps us engaged. Since I work in N, I could build a 3x6 with parallel ovals and run trains in opposite directions on the tracks. That would not keep me engaged, but some my enjoy watching them run the track (and don’t get me wrong, I have had my share of days that, at the end, watching something chug along like that would be appealing…particularly if they required no input or thought from me to do it!)
While I model a static time, I can understand Eric Brooman’s idea of modeling a railroad not only today, but evolving on a daily basis just as the UP, CSX, NS, or BNSF (and every short line) does today.
Truth is, I can find some redeeming qualities in pretty much any method of model railroading. Heck, I see things at train shows that remind me of my childhood and building a layout and running trains with my dad. I get comfort and enjoyment from those moments, and they give me a pause…,even if the object that triggers the memory is a 1969-vintage Tyco F7 (advertised as an F9) in Santa Fe freight livery that had a useful lifespan of about 3 or 4 years, at best.
And despite all the research and effort to create a plausible model of the world in my basement, I still have this insane urge to order a Kato bullet train, repaint it in Bunter Ridge passenger livery and attribute it to the BR R and D department, being slightly ahead of their time in 1958! One of these days I am going to act on that urge.
Why is this a disadvantage? You are biasing your answer based on your preferences. Saying that it is a disadvantage is just as bad as saying freelancing is a disadvantage.
If you are interested in prototype operation then this isn’t a disadvantage, its actually an advantage. It prevents me from wasting hundreds of dollars on a spur of the moment purchases. Wow, that Reading Crusader set is really neat. Should I buy it cause its really cool and I model the RDG? Nope, not in my era. Just saved $600.
Read the forums. The people having problems fitting the Big Boys on the 4x8 layouts aren’t the people who are trying to model a prototype faithfully, its the people who are freelancing. The people who can’t figure out what mix of industries to put on their layout aren’t the prototype modelers. Its the freelancers.
Not saying freelancing is bad or that shouldn’t be done. But it does create its own set of problems and has its own set of disadvantages.