Just got to keep your eyes open. Same story I just related in a different thread - when I was a kid, 5-6 years old, we had a 4x8 layout we put up seasonally in the family room. My Dad built it all, but he could never run trains without ruinnign a switch and derailing, I was the only one who could run trains and keep them going.
I have powered the frogs on several of my turnouts. If a train aproaches with the turnout set for the wrong route it will cause a short tripping the DCC system’s circuit breaker stopping the train. Works great if your going slow enough.
If you use Tortoise switch machines they can be set up to automatically throw a turnout when a train aproaches when the turnout is set wrong.
we used to have a bunch of “flop over” switches in the yard which you could run through without tearing them up.
in model railroading, the closest anyone has come has to be the old lionel switches that you could just run through and they would throw themselves. i guess it would be hard to do that with our models.
i use straight dc control and my switches are power routing, at least for a foot or so past the frog. this prevents most locomotives from going through a switch that is lined wrong.
shoving cars is a different matter. if i don’t pay attention, i don’t just get on the ground, i get 'em all over the ground. (big four term for major yard derailment)
Mane Lion switches are LOCKED or at least operated from the control tower. If your switches have electric switch machines, make sure that the down position of the toggle switch represents the normal position of the turnout, thus a glance at the row of switches will tell you if there is one thrown against you.
In yards, well you do have to look at where you are going,. If you have a remote control, this is easy since you are standing right there, and your train is moving slowly.
The Route of the Broadway LION is almost 100% mane lion operations turnouts are controlled from the tower and the trains run automatically with no engineer at the controls. The LION runs a railroad, not a train.
Just a thought - I don’t know how technically savvy you are, or your budget, but have you considered installing signals for each turnout? Maybe something like red/green on each leg of the turnout, when you change the switch, the signals will reverse? You could also consider a circuit (with maybe an optical sensor) to automatically reverse the switch as you approach as needed. Another option would be to have the switch automatically turn the power on/off for the tracks beyond the switch (similar concept as a power routing turnout). That way you can’t run a switch set against your train.
I don’t know whether to suggest anger management or consider a buddty system of operation so that a trusted brakeman would be looking at how the turnouts are lined and verbally tell you the engineer whether to stop or go ahead.
A fellow named Allan Gartner maintains a very complete website about wiring issues associated with DCC, and he does discuss power routing switches and how to get the same effect as power routed switches.
me again, on my layout i have about 100 switches. most are shinohara and most are controlled by caboose industries ground throws.
the gizmos are a bit oversize but they work well enough for me. i paint the handle green on one side and yellow on the other to designate whether the switch is lined for the normal or diverting route. if there is no one normal alignment, then i just leave it black.
i try to remember to line everything back for the normal route when i am done.
otherwise one gets a nastygram; "arrange to appear in the office of the terminal supt. at 9am monday morning for a formal investigation to determine the facts and your responsibility, if any, concerning blah blah blah.
Hi Russ! If you come up with a “foolproof” method I would suggest you patent it because everybody will want one!
I have been trying to design a system where approaching trains will be detected by infrared detectors that will automatically throw the switch if needed. It would seem that the components are readily available. The amount of wiring could be a nuisance because I will also need to have manual control, and I want to have working signals and panel lights showing the switch position. There is also an issue with positioning of the sensors to avoid conflicting signals. That will mean that they will have to be fairly close to the actual switches and any parked rolling stock will have to be clear of the detectors, especially in a yard. Slow motion switch machines can’t be used because even at yard speeds the trains will likely enter the switch before it is fully thrown. I really want to have slow motion switches but it ain’t going to happen.
I realize that having the switches automated in this manner is not exactly prototypical, but I want to be able to relax when running trains. Besides, I am slow enough off the mark to begin with so anything that will help me avoid derailments is a blessing!
Russ, It seems that you and I have led similar lives! I will say that running a switch on the layout doesn’t quite give me that sinking feeling I’d get if we did it out on the real thing. The only difference is that you rarely derail on the real RR but you tear up the guts of the switch. Before we switched to DCC and powered all of our mainline switches with standard AC, I had it arranged so that you could normal up all of the mainline irons with the push a few buttons arranged by the transformer. At that time, it was common to find a yard switch left open by one of my sons [or myself, not ducking any blame] so these buttons were the first things you pushed before a locomotive turned a wheel on the main. Now we run all of the mainline irons from the throttle, so it doesn’t hurt to spot check everything before I operate. I like Daves idea with sensors, but I doubt my sons and I will ever go that far.
Sensors cost money: lots of money, and I’d need over 200 of them. I’ll have to pass on that idea.
The worst that could happen on my layout is that a train would be shunted from an express track to a local track or vice versa.
On NYCT a T/O (Train Operator) must take such a lineup UNLESS it represents a “Point of no Return” ergo it would send him to a wrong destination. If he is being diverted to a different route, the dispatchers must inform him of what is happening, so that he can keep the geese (passengers) informed of the change.
There is no way a train on my layout can run an improperly aligned switch from the back since there are no such locations. (Well ok, a few, but there the train will not be able to take power so that too is moot. That is to say a train on track A cannot take power if the switch is lined to track B, because the power is routed only to track B. That is intentional, because that is how I hold trains to let another one into the parade.
DCC Specialties hare and the wabbit will do automatric throws for you if it sees you are approaching against the switch. It’s a bit of a cheat, but it works!
Out of curiosity, and after reading through the bulk of the replies… are you looking for a better method to keep yourself vigilant? Or a way to make sure the switch is thrown or gets thrown in the event that you’re not?
I believe that the hare and wabbit devices are intended to work with the tortoise slow motion switch machines. My concern is that the slow motion switch machines would not be able to throw the switch quickly enough to prevent a derailment unless the detection circuit was located some distance from the switch. I don’t see how this could work in a yard with switches very close together. I believe the speed of the tortoise machines is adjustable but at the tortoise’s maximum speed, how far from the switch does the detection circuit have to be in order to throw the switch in time (assuming normal yard speeds)?
That would appear to be the simplest solution - use a power routing turnout (or an electrical switch of some kind, that gets thrown when you throw the turnout) to power the track just beyond a turnout, on both routes.
If the turnout is thrown the other way there will be no power on the last couple of inches of rail on on the track you are approaching. You will get a sudden stop, but no derailment.