For the UK members

I’ll be attending the Gathering at Crewe in September and was hoping to bring a video camera to record the event and also was going to Blackpool and London as a tourist and was hoping to use my video camera there as well. I’m wondering if in light of the recent bombings there’s been a major crack down on video or still picture taking. Also, here in the US we’ve had incidents of railfans being stopped and questioned by the police for simply taking pictures from public spaces. Should I expect any problems from the authorities if I try to shoot some pictures? Are there any sort of permits that are needed to shoot pictures in the Underground or at any of the terminals in the UK now? I would greatly appreciate any advice in this area. Thank you all.

Short answer (and obviously this is a personal opinion) - No, you won’t have any problems, and no, you don’t need any permits. See - http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/guidelines_for_rail_enthusiasts.htm

Yesterday I spent some time watching and videoing the trains at Crewe and Birmingham New Street stations (the latter one of the busiest stations in the UK) with no problems at all. There were about a dozen other enthusiasts doing much the same thing at both places too.

Rail enthusiasts are generally looked upon by the public in the UK as objects of gentle derision, not security risks. You’ll usually find a few enthusiasts on the end of the platforms at the interesting places to watch/photograph trains.

To be honest, the big London terminal stations aren’t the most interesting places to watch trains anyway, and access to the platforms can difficult sometimes (train cleaning etc) so I’d get out of town - Reading (west of London on the main line from Paddington) is one of my favourites, all diesel and very busy, but there are plenty of others - it just depends on what you are interested in.

If you want to combine trains with touristy things, then York should be on your list (National Railway Museum, old city walls, large cathedral and a busy, imposing train station). If you need other suggestions, just ask [:)]

Have fun!

Tony

I hope you have a great time over here, and I’m sure you’ll drawn into lots of interesting conversations and meet some real characters, but I honestly think you shouldn’t attempt to take photos or video anything on the Underground right now, and by Underground I count those in Liverpool / Glasgow / Newcastle.

Have a great holiday anyway. Regards

I meant as well as THE London Underground, not only the provincial ones.

Were I to visit the London metropolitan area, would it be worth my while to visit Clapham Junction, “England’s Crossroads.” How restrictive is security? How are the vantage points? I like to photograph moving and still passenger trains – can you think of other or better vantage points?

Clapham Junction is really two stations side-by-side, the east side is on the line from London Victoria, the west side is on the line from London Waterloo, with an enclosed footbridge and subway spanning all the platforms. It’s fun to watch during rush-hour if you’ve not been there before, but it’s almost entirely third-rail electric MU trains so it can get a bit boring after a while.

Other places just out of inner London worth a visit are Stratford (main line out of Liverpool Street (mostly electric) + Underground + Docklands light railway all alongside each other), Finsbury Park (main line out of King’s Cross, electric + IC125 diesel), Ealing Broadway (main line out of Padington (diesel) + Heathrow airport trains (electric) + Underground).

Clapham Junction and Finsbury Park are covered by the enthusiast guidelines I linked to above, Stratford and Ealing Broadway are joint stations with the Underground so I’m not sure of the situation there regarding photography - but I doubt you’ll have any problems as a tourist (they’ll probably be watching you on the platforms via CCTV anyway!).

Tony

Why not ?

According to the politicians (and the head of the Metropolitan Police) we’re all supposed to carry on as normal to show defiance etc (and I fully agree with that) - tourists taking pictures of one of the icons of London is normality isn’t it ?

Besides which, taking photos can deter people from doing things they shouldn’t and (as evidenced by the recent appeals from the Police in London for photographs and video) can be useful for later investigations.

There’s lots of pictures of various aspects of the Tube already out there on the internet so I’m not quite sure what stopping tourists taking pictures is going to add to security…

Tony

I’d agree with the above…although I’d add that flash photography has always been illegal on the London Underground.

Dealemeout…what are you going to see specifically in Blackpool? I ask because if you’re going to the Pleasure Beach, where all the Roller Coasters are, the security threat is from thieves and a video camera may not be a good idea.

You’ll be fine if you’re going for the trams (trolleys). in fact, drop me a line if you are. I only live an hour away and could meet you for a guided tour.

What about photographing trains in Great Britain from public property ? In October 2002 I photographed trains crossing the River Tyne in Newcastle from the George Street Bridge, and nobody bothered me. Would I be able to photograph trains from public property in Great Britain now in light of the recent bombings in the London?

Rudy

I saw a copy of The Railway Magazine today that contained a copy of the code for taking railway photos. (This was pre-bombing). Most was common-sense, but they do have some restrictions on tripods. (Tripods make you a “commercial” photographer.) Generally, it’s stay out of the way of the workers, don’t get too close to the platform edge and tell someone in authority if you plan to hang around for long.
Clapham Junction has a lot of trains and a lot of tracks.
There’s a brigde just outside London Victoria (Ecclestone Bridge Road) over all the tracks with a pretty good view.

You should be OK taking pics from public places. Sydney Gardens in Bath is one of the best parks in Britain to photograph trains. A variety of freight and passenger trains pass through. If you’re lucky you might see one of the now rare class 31 diesel locos on a Bristol - Weymouth train.

There are no restrictions on taking photos of trains from public property - the guidelines here - http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/guidelines_for_rail_enthusiasts.htm - are specifically about photography etc when ON railway property in the UK.

If you’ve not been to the UK before, a few points:

  • Trespassing on the railway is taken seriously - all lines are fenced so there shouldn’t be any arguments as to where the boundaries are.

  • Generally standing anywhere on station platforms is OK (unless notices say otherwise), but the ramps at the ends are out of bounds.

  • Take heed of the yellow lines along the platform edges - at some stations trains pass the platforms every few minutes at 125 mph, so stay behind the yellow lines.

  • If you are riding on a train with opening windows, be very careful if you want to stick your head out - clearances between trains and other objects can be very tight in the UK (inches rather than feet). There are tunnels in south east London with scrape marks from trains that have touched the sides over the years…

Tony

if you can try and get up to doncaster … the station is very good for watching trains and only a short trip to york for the museum…thanks peter

Thank you all for your help. I am especially glad to get the information regarding flash photography on the Underground since I was unaware of this. And to Mr. Reed, I appreciate the heads up on keeping an eye on my camera equipment in Blackpool. I’m used to this since I live near Washington, DC and we have quite a few high crime areas here too. I am going primarily for the trolleys and am planning on being in Blackpool on the 16th of September if all goes well. If you’d care to contact me, my e-mail address is dealemeout@aol.com. Once again thank you all for your advice and help.

Our friend is taking a holiday, for goodness sake, and whether he’s legally entitled to photograph or video at an Underground Station or not, I don’t feel comfortable encouraging anyone to visit our Underground at the moment.

Admittedly, the risk of getting caught up in a nasty event might be slim, but the risk is there. There’s plenty to see in the UK, but now would be a good time to leave London off his list.

I think it’s up to each individual to decide whether being in London is riskier now than it was a month ago - the main difference is that something has actually happened instead of being a theoretical probability. At least it has re-alerted people to the dangers so it should make it harder for the next terrorist to succeed.

I live in one of the prime tourist destinations in the UK (Cambridge) and many of the visitors are day-trippers from London. I don’t have any involvement in the tourist business, but I can’t see a good reason to dissuade people from visiting London if they want to.

The situation we’re in at the moment is a bit like the one after a serious rail accident - the press is full of headlines, the politicians are wringing their hands and saying we can’t let this happen again, the professionals are doing a magnificent job sorting out the aftermath, and the rest of us are feeling a bit nervous (despite the fact that statistically you are very, very unlikely to be involved in a train crash - you are more likely to be killed or injured walking or driving to the station). Not all of this is rational behaviour but we’re human…

I agree that there are more interesting places in the UK to visit if watching trains is the primary purpose (and on the eastern side of England, I’d add Barnetby to the list if frequent freight trains controlled by mechanical sempaphore signalling are your thing). The modern trams in Manchester would make an interesting contrast to the vintage version in Blackpool too.

Tony

For trolleys, be sure to visit the South of London, Croydon, to be exact, with its modern and very varied new light rail system, with private right of way, street running, bridges, a single track seciton on the Eccles extension, well worth a vist. Notingham, Sheffield, and Manchaster all have interesting new light rail systems. If you are in Blackpool, obviously well worth a visit as the only classic British system still running, with 50-year-old streamlined double-deckers still providing much of the service, from Fleetwood, the northern end of the streetcar, there are boats to the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man has a 108-year old interurban trolley line, complete with original wood equipment, open-bench cars, running from Douglass, where the boat lands, to Laxey, with the wider gauge Snaifield Mountain line with its Fell raised brake rail in the middle, and then to Ramsey. This is a must operation for any trolley enthusiast, nothing like in anywhere in the world, with wonderful scenery, single track and passing sideings, the works. It is truly the trolley equivalent of the Durango and Silverton or the Cumbres and Toltec. And to top it off, the Isle of Man does have a preserved and operating narrow gauge steam railroad to Port Erin or Cambiltown (forget which), and a horsecar line providing local transportation on the sea front (where your boat docks) in Douglas. And the food is wonderful in the restaurants, fish being a specialty, possibly the best eating in the United Kingdom.

I’d agree wholeheartedly with the suggestion of a visit to the Isle of Man - see http://www.isle-of-man.com/heritage/transport/index.shtml for more info

(South of Douglas there is probably the world’s only airport station on a narrow gauge steam railway!!)

If trolleys/streetcars are your thing, then there is also a good tramway museum at Crich in Derbyshire - see http://www.tramway.co.uk/

Tony

Error, forgive me, the Eccles extension is in Sheffield or Manchester, foreget which, not in Croydon!

Eccles is just west of Manchester (so the line is part of the Manchester Metrolink system). For a bit of historical interest, the main line railway through Eccles is part of the original Liverpool and Manchester Railway, opened in 1830 and the first proper ‘mainline’ railway in the UK as we know them today (and probably the world - but B&O fans will argue I’m sure [:)]).

Tony

P.S. to add to Simon’s comment above, flash photography is banned on the main railway system too in the UK - for obvious safety reasons i.e. distracting/temporarily blinding the driver.

If you are visiting London and want to get a side-by-side look at the sub-surface and (much smaller) deep level tube trains, the open air section west of Barons Court station has four tracks with both varieties running alongside each other.