Thats the title of a four page discussion on the Model Railroader forum under general discusssion.
Based on a survey by the Hobby Mfrs Assoc. sales are up. The amount of money spent is up, some say it’s because of price increases or inflation. Don’t know if O manufactures were included in this survey.
Dennis San Fernando Valley CA.
YORK appeared to be pretty healthy last week. Even if our hunter/gatherer activities are curtailed a bit, we all have a shelf full of modeling projects waiting to be completed.
Another scenario is with numerous train shops closing over the past couple years the remaining shops will pick up their customer base. An example is Jim’s Train Shop, a super large MTH dealer, that business will be picked up by other shops.
I agree with FIFEDOG, people at YORK were buying stuff.
laz57
Just a little food for thought, but the internet shopping for train related stuff can be a lot cheaper than MSRP, and that may have had and still may have a bit to do with shops closing, and or sales down at our local shops. I just purchased a Brand New “Ploar Express ready to run train set” for $320.00 on the shelf at my local shop, “I wanted to support the local economy” But I could have kicked myself, when I found a bunch of them on line for $254.00 and FREE SHIPPING and no sales tax. Yeah, theres a lot of delta going on there, so the MSRP prices are what might be loosing the locals a good many sales. Just food for thought…Dave.
Anybody who believes the hobby is “dieing” needs to come visit our Kids Club events. It has been expanded to two sessions and we constantly carry a waiting list. This is in San Diego which I wouldn’t describe as a “hotbed” for O gauge trains.
I am with you Dave,
I drove to a old shop in Peru IL. To get a in real look at ReadyGrass( nice to see and touch what you want to get) but could not bring myself to buy because I can get it on line for 30% less on line and the shipping is less money than it took me to drive there. I tried to haggle but they would not budge. It did not look like they had sold much of anything because I was looking at O27 42" switches with 3 different prices from $56.00 to $74.00. You can get then on line new for $44.00 I looked at some old K-Line long O27 straight track but they wanted the MSRP price for new Lionel that you can also get for 30% off on line. At the end of the day it is about how much I can get for my money. Fixed income I live on sucks.
Kevin
Our society is based on instant gratification, which you would think would make the LHS more powerful in the sales department than online retailers. “See it today, buy it today, take it home today.” But in practice, the opposite seems to be true.
The LHS’s are saddled by overhead which keeps their ability to purchase inventory lower than many would like. So as a result they have to guess at what will be popular and stock up on those items, which naturally keeps their ability to buy the “special items” low. So in our world that means fewer high priced locomotives on display and dusty and sun-faded boxes on the shelves. And today’s instant gratification kid doesn’t want to come back in a week or two when the product arrives. He/she wants it now otherwise they would have ordered it online for home delivery. Enter the net-tailer that can undersell the LHS consistently because of his lack-of or extremely low overhead. We buy from them to stretch the few dollars we have instead of poping over to the LHS.
What this all comes out to is fewer LHS’s with less stock on hand to impress the next generation. And many of today’s LHS’s have moved to smaller locations which means they’ve had to stop having display layouts. But also because the business model says diversification is the key to survival so the display layouts had to give way to model airplanes, cars, boats, etc. In the end the true “Train Store” disappeared and the LHS was born. And today’s kid is often more impressed with the RC helicopters and RC cars than they are with the trains. After all, why settle for something that runs on rails in the basement when with an RC car or helicopter you can chase your siblings around the house! [(-D]
Railroads are absolutely critical to our daily lives but most people don’t know it. So it’s only natural that model railroading would shift from a multimega industrial giant like it was in the first half of the
These statistics appear to be limited to the model railroad “industry.” While there is certainly a correlation between the industry and the health of the hobby, in my opinion it does not tell the complete story. For example, money is somewhat tight for me right now so my recent purchases have been very limited. In addition, my layout is more or less “completed” so that has also slowed down my train purchases. However, my lack of buying model railroad items has not diminished my participation in the hobby. I now enjoy the hobby by operating the layout I built. This variety of ways we can enjoy our trains is what makes this such a great hobby. For me, model railroading is alive and well. Hopefully this is the case with many others as well. Nevertheless, it is very encouraging to see statistics showing industry sales increases.
Karl
Dying compared to what? 1900, the great depression, the postwar era? Some of this “dying” meme is due to the enormous baby boom after WW2, whose members are at or approaching retirement and frankly, mortality. These adults had a enormous effect on reviving the hobby as consumers when they became adults. There are other factors aside from costs in of themselves. Community based industry and commerce has been largely replaced with either big box stores, franchises or the internet trade and I don’t see this trend reversing itself. Although I do think a great deal was lost in this, the intangible and wonderful sense of local quirky Americana, which is nearly extinguished.
About a decade ago, I was one of those laid of in " a reduction of force" and went to Ireland and spent two weeks in a small community whose name I cannot pronounce and whose spelling is worse. It was like America was 100 years ago. I loved it. You want bread, you visited the baker, or the green grocer for vegetables. Families of several generations having a meal together on the weekend. The pub was a the axis of the baker, the green grocer, the cop, the priest, what have you. I loved it and came away rejuvenated. The bank was late opening because the manager had too much to drink on Saturday, or so the local flower lady told me. Ha. I think all of us need to go away for a spell if we can and come back to see what we have here with new eyes, good or bad…
The only constant is change.
One reason that people say the hobby is dying is the lack of younger blood, what happens when most of us old farts kick the bucket? [xx(]
Well, I am building this one here for the younger blood, my two nephews. I can only hope that they stay interested, and when they are old enough to take over, then maybe they will just keep building and adding to it over time. I can even “hope” that they will build thier own model RR empire and one day pass it on to thier younger generation, as I did. For those who don’t have children that enjoy the hobby, well I don’t know about what happens then. I can only say that I am trying do do my part in keeping the young ones interested as much as I can…Dave.
I have 3 grandsons ranging in age from 20 to 13. They all were interested in running the electric trains until they discovered all the electronic marvels that are now available to them. The 20 year old lasted the longest in the electric train world since there was fewer electronic marvel options available a decade ago. But as more electronic games and hardware are discovered it is very difficult to keep them interested in electric trains. The oldest grandson who is in his second year at Ohio State has zero time for electric trains, he is majoring in Nuclear Engineering, so classes, homework, and girls occupy all of his time. The other 2 will run trains with me just to keep me from bugging them when they are playing with their electronic marvels.
In rereading this thread, a couple of thoughts occurred to me.that I thought I would share for better or worse. How many young people living today have seen a operating steam locomotive? How many are fascinated by today’s railroads? If it came between a computer game, or a model railroad, which would they chose, especially if the cost of the latter is higher than the former? With less time in front of me than behind me, do I really care, that is to say, where do I honestly rank the survival of the hobby in priority of concerns? I think the hobby will survive as a smaller niche market. Lionel and MTH will likely merge. I know this sounds crazy but I think the trains will become less electronic as the market shrinks.Wind up toys vanished in dominating the toy marker decades ago, yet there are places you can go to buy brand new ones as a nostalgia item.Toy trains I think will move toward a collectors market. Look at pressed steel toys, or tin friction airplanes…kids don’t have them, or the recent Marline Monorail and the prices will knock your socks off. This is the future as it seems likely. I think we are toward the end of a postwar cycle, the most golden of golden eras. The hobby will survive not due to manufacturers, but largely to the hobbyists, setting up public displays, How many industry’s spend as little on advertising to the general public?. I have never seen ( outside of a one off Lionel commercial) reaching out, except in what else? Train magazines.Superstreets was one of the great “lost” innovations that was under marketed. Those are my three cents worth.
Interesting, thoughtful posts… In my opinion, model railroading is a niche hobby that was amplified, like practically everything else in American life, by the great number of Baby Boomers who became enthusiasts for all sorts of complicated reasons. As they moved through life, the hobby waxed and waned and grew again. Although there’s a sort of echo effect to these interests - those who come in contact with enthusiasts might catch the hobby ‘bug’, buy a trainset, build a layout - it’s pretty hard to capture a brand-new hobbyist versus selling more to the ‘already-converted.’ I applaud Lionel’s efforts to get into big box stores and raise their visibility - and MTH’s moving into sub-niches - tinplate, Euro-trains… As the number of Boomers retiring grows and grows, maybe the ‘boom years’ will continue, but in the long term, the hobby will shrink back into the niche it was pre-WW2.
I started running trains with the Glancy Trains Modular Group here in Detroit last March (next show is November so I haven’t done it again yet), but another member and I put the RR yard and round-house module to work for the first time since it was built a few years ago (so I’ve been told, it doesn’t see much use at the shows). It’s got a transfer table, turn table and a long yard spur along the main-line. We spent the last few hours of the show with my GP9 and a couple other locomotives moving cars around and demonstrating the different ways of moving a locomotive or car between tracks. We had a big crowd of people standing around watching, the best part was all the kids younger than me staring wide-eyed at the train action. That’s one of the best parts of the hobby. Though it’s not the biggest hobby in the world, it’s definitely not dying yet, there’s still enough of a younger crowd that it should stay that way for awhile. Here’s a video I took that day, you can see some of the crowd around the layout (not so big in this video but we saw a lot of people), young and old. And you can see how much my Lionel Mikado JR can pull [FLASH_VIDEO] [/FLASH_VIDEO]
Very nice video, well made and Great looking trains. Were those tanks on the flat cars 1:48 scale?? Also were they model kit tanks or diecast?? It sure got my nephews attention real quick when he saw them.
I would love to do something like that with my Santa Fe when I get it going…Dave.
They were 1:48 or around that. They belonged to a couple of club members so I’m not really sure what they were made out of or what brand but they sure attracted a lot of attention. They ran a C&O 2-8-4 which was seen in the video and later pulled out a Lionel UP Desert Victory SD-40(?) and ran it for awhile. I believe one members screen name is MichRR714 on the OGR forum if you want to get in touch with him for the details. Just did some searching on the OGR forum and found his thread about the train from before the show. Sounds like they’re MTH cars and tanks (his were at least) http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/57660482/m/3362911607?r=8912931607#8912931607
This is what we need to show kids if we want to get them interested in the hobby! I love trains, but how long can you watch them go around in circles, honestly? As an avid videogamer, I can tell you that video games are compelling because they engage the mind. It is a fallacy perpetuated by those who don’t play, that the child with the controller in hand staring into the TV is “zoned out” and not thinking. No! He stares at the TV like that because he is zoned in! This is especially true for those who play simulation-type games or Role Playing games: a lot of thinking is required to be any good at them.
The kids we lose to gaming are bright kids, youth whose intellect could be engaged by the many facets of our hobby: planning, building, modeling, wiring and learning about electrical stuff, and of course operation. But too often what they see at public shows is simply trains running in endless “idiot loops”–fun to watch, but hardly engaging of the mind! If the hobby is to be interesting to these youth, then they need to see its deeper aspects, and operation (or at least its rudiments, like a meet, or a switching puzzle) is one of those deeper aspects of the hobby that can be demonstrated pretty easily.
I have a 14 year-old cousin who visits us about twice a year; he has no trains of his own, but really enjoys our family’s train room. Keeping in mind that he has only been at the throttle about a dozen times in his whole life, consider how his use of the train room has evolved: At first, he was content to run the trains around and a
That was my first day running with the Glancy club and after running in circles for about two hours straight, I was having fun myself just kicking a few cars around the yard, switching engines around and trying to get my highly sensitive GP9 across the rusted fastrack rails of the yard (it hadn’t been used much so the tracks finally started rusting over, I’ll have to clean them up in november)