I have completed the trackwork on my first HO scale layout. Unfortunately, as a novice I didn’t pay close enough attention to curve radius; and some of the track hasn’t been laid as pristinely as it could have been. My Bachmann CN diesel loco and shorter rolling stock manage to navigate around the tight curves, and through the odd dip, but my BLI Y6b and longer passenger cars keep derailing. I think some of the curves are closer to 16" than 18" (Y6b could have handled 18"). I have done what I can over the past few weeks to tidy things up, but don’t want rip up anymore track or redesign. I am keen to now move forward with existing layout and want to purchase a new steam engine to use instead of the Y6b. I will keep the Y6B on the shelf until I expand my layout, or build a new one. Can anyone recommend a shorter locomotive with a forgiving wheel configuration? I would like it to be DCC with sound and, if possible, relatively inexpensive. Thanks.
Probably a Proto 0-6-0 could handle it, but even there you might have to play with the tender linkage to keep the back of the cab from hitting the front of the tender.
But,instead of another engine, I would recommend that you invest in an 18-inch RibbonRail track gauge. That section of track is going to bother you forever, and eventually you will have to fix it. If you want to “move forward,” don’t think you can leave this mistake behind. Good trackwork is the key to happy model railroading.
The Y6B is a long articulated steam engine - I would be surprised if an HO model of one could be engineered to stay on the track on a 18-inch curve, let alone a 22 or 24 inch curve. If you simply don’t have the space to build curves bigger than 18-inches, it just seems like asking for difficulty by trying to run rolling stock which too long and really inappropriate for such tight curves. Even if accurately and evenly laid, 18 inch curves are simply to tight for long wheel based loco’s. freight cars and passenger cars. Even the ones which are tricked into staying on the track will look extreemly toy like but thats a personal choice.
The old AHM/Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 Y6b could handle 18" radius curves - perhaps even tighter ones – due to lots of side play in the drivers. Their deep flanges might have helped too. But the engine looked absurd on such tight curves so I think your instincts to make your Y6b a nice display engine until you get a larger layout are correct.
While your problem may indeed be too tight a radius, if you are a novice (or over-hasty) track-layer, another very real possibility is an abrupt angle where one piece of track meets another. This is surprisingly easy to do. The track can look seamless – no gap between rail ends – but it is not a real curve, it is an angle. Only the most forgiving wheel/flange combinations can deal with that. If that is the problem then you will never be happy because all sorts of stuff you acquire will derail there, even if that stuff can handle tight curves. The old fashioned way to tell is to get your head down close to the track, squint and look down the track, and see if the curve is smooth or if it has this abrupt angle. The Ribbonrail gauge is another way to tell.
I think you’d be happier in the bigger picture if you relaid the track, frankly. Otherwise what you find is all sorts of odd things happen – cars that go through the curve fine one time, don’t the next because of the car they are coupled to, and that sort of thing.
Dave Nelson
I haven’t tried it, but Bachmann says their Baldwin modern 4-4-0 will work on 15" radius curves.
But I agree with fixing your track. One bad locomotive you can put on the shelf, but one bad curve can derail all your trains.
Good luck
Paul
Another vote for relaying the track, at least in the problem area… My rule is, one thing derails one time in that spot, check whatever derailed, fix whatever problems it has, and it is not run again until fixed, but more than one thing derails, or more than one time at the same spot, fix that spot. I don’t run anything until that spot is fixed. I find no fun in rerailing things because track is an issue. Fix the real problem, the track work in that area, or you will continue to have issues. Yes, not with that particular loco, as you have parked it, but other equipment may decide it’s no longer happy with that problem anymore, and any new acquired equipment may not like that area either.
A 2-8-0 (at the edge of largest possible for 18" curves. Absolutely nothing with more than 8 driving wheels for steam. Most 6 axel diesels won’t even like that…) or smaller will handle some tighter curve radius’, but if there is a noticeable dip, they may just be still big enough (even down to a the tiny 0-6-0 switchers, or the 4-4-0 mentioned above.) that they will still derail when they hit that dip. Especially if it’s still in the curve. When they come back “up” from it, they will try to go straight at the top, and most likely still derail. (Also, most six axle diesels will derail on that point as well. Trust me, fix the track work.)
I know you were hoping for a different answer, but I can’t give it. That area of the track that has a problem is what you need to address. As someone who had “less than spectacular” track work before, it needs to be almost “bulletproof” to give reliable operation. Until the real problem is fixed, you will likely continue to have derailments, and after a while, those get real annoying. (And if stuff goes really wrong, expensive…)
So, short answer, is this: Fix the track work. Then we can discuss
18 inches is the standard minimum radius for HO track. All the trainsets come with 18 inch curve track and all the HO manufacturers do their damndest to get their stuff to work on 18 inch curves. I would not expect much stuff to run on anything sharper than 18 inch. It’s so difficult to get it to run on 18 inch curves that I would expect trouble on anything less. Was it me, I’d check the radius on all my curves and relay any that are sharper than a generous 18 inch. You can check curve radius with just a pencil and a string, and a nail. Measure out 18 inches of string and use it to swing an arc thru your trackwork. If the center of the arc is off the table, move in something to take the nail at the center. I used my camera tripod.
Given that you have 18 inch or better curves, all the smaller steamers, 0-6-0,0-8-0 switchers, 4-4-0 (American) 2-6-0 (Mogul), 2-8-0 (Consolidation), 4-6-2 (Pacific), and 2-8-2 (Mikado) ought to work for you. Some full length passenger cars can be made to work (add weight, truck mount couplers, Dremel away underbody obstructions to truck swing) Others will not work. The Athearn heavy weight cars will work, pretty much out of the box.
Good luck.
I’ve been an HO model railroader since 1951, yes 64 years. I have always been overly careful laying track but I still eroded on my current layout back in 1990. I lived with the error for years with a shoofly for my Y6Bs and Cab Forwards. As stated in earlier posts the Rivarossi articulateds with large flanges are far more forgiving then any large locomotive with newer NMRA flanges. They easily handle 18” radius but there isn’t a larger HO locomotive that will tolerate badly laid track!!! My error was very minor on a curve at a grade transition, it was a minor error but a major problem to repair. I put up with it for years until it finally got to me when a Proto 2000 E7 would derail there too.
The longer you put off doing it right the harder it will be to fix it. Every time you add something to your layout you will complicate the fix! It was a major undertaking to fix my mistake and would have so much easier to have fixed it twenty years earlier.
Do yourself a big favor and fix it before things get worse, a flawless operating layout will make your model railroading experience much happier and fun. That’s what this hobby is all about, having fun. There is nothing worse than making excuses to visitors of why your trains won’t stay on the track!!! Every time you have a derail the little guy running around in the back of your head will be yelling “why didn’t I fix that earlier”.
And your Y6B won’t be collecting dust on a
For train set purposes, that does seem to be the minimum radius standard, but IMO, in many ways it does a disservice to the hobby in that it gives many new folks an impression that 18-inches is an acceptable minimum radius, when it is not - it is only good for small ovals of track with generally short rolling stock. So much of what a person may run to run in the future is longer, that they really need to drop the train set format very early and shoot for 24, or better yet, 28 inch minimum curves so they can run most popular rolling stock on the market.
You are in a spot and don’t have the stomach for repairing or refining your original effort at laying track. I get it. Almost every one of us has faced that problem, even after years of experience, planning, dreaming, and working hard to get our track just right. I have had to rip up two lengths of nicely weathered track when a new locomotive would not run on the curve and all other prior purchases have no problem on that curve. It happens.
This hobby is not for the faint of heart. It is intensely rewarding, but only if you are hard-nosed, determined, a good learner, and willing to do things over. Fortunately, I chose my parents carefully, and am blessed with those qualities.
Redo your tracks. It’s easy. First, you close your eyes, take a deep breath, and undo what you must. It takes but minutes, you needn’t build it all again that day. You make up your mind you are going to carefully reconsider your options, and take several days to build something that will KEEP YOU HAPPY AND INTERESTED.
Your track can be salvaged. Think about it. Do it. Rebuild properly with knew understanding. Enjoy that Y6b if it works out you can run it, even as a yard switcher. They were used occasionally in yards that way. Try for #5 turnouts, nothing less, and you will open your layout to a larger range of locomotives and rolling stock.
Nike Corp had it right all along. Just do it…but this time as you know it should be done.
Another vote for relaying the track. I know I know your post says you don’t want to do that BUT bullet proof track is important. Think of it as the foundation to your layout. You wouldn’t want the foundation to your house to be off.
As a newbie on my first layout I ended up laying down the track three times. Hey just chalk it up to your new and it’s a learning experience .
Also you may have to adjust your operating expectations. Because of space constraints, I have 18 inch curves as well. I have resigned myself to freight only and limiting stock to 50 scale feet.
One thing you can do to get bigger equipment to work is to install long shank KD couplers.
Get the track bulletproof first. You wouldn’t want to abandon your layout because it only becomes a source of frustration every time you operate it.
Good luck
Derek
What everyone is saying, this is model railroading.
Good luck on re-doing. It has to be done.
Rich
So far it’s unanimous. Not one respondent has said the “keep it as it is” approach will work. If you think I’m going to buck the trend, you’re sadly wrong. Take out the curved track. Ignore the places where it was. Locate the center of your proposed curve. Get a cheap wooden yardstick at the lumberyard and drill holes 18" or 20" or 22" (or whatever your desired radius) apart. Put a nail in one hole and a pencil in the other. Plant the nail at the curve center and draw your curve. When you install the new track, that line is the center of your track. No deviation. Use the largest radius that will fit in your space.
As for your original question, that uneven curve will not handle any 6-axle diesel. Short 4-axle diesels will probably work. Steam engines with 6 wheels (3 driven axles) are about as large as you would want, although you may be lucky enough to find an 0-8-0 or 2-8-0 that will work. Trailing and leading wheels will be prone to derailment, no matter the wheel arrangement.
Tom
since you want to run an articulated Bachmanns 2-6-6-2 is good. My yard has a sharp inner curve, tho I tested my Y6B on it, coupled cars a nono. Altho 18 inch radius is standard, 15 inch radius is still possible for smaller engines should you want/need/design your layout like I am, just remember only certain engines can work it. The South Shore owned the big Little Joe electrics but they were restricted from certain areas of the railroad and they had signs for them as well…(800 class restricted). For diesels you want 4 wheel trucks…but again manufacturers do try to get the 6 axles to run (and athearn’s dd40 could too) on 18 inch radius.
If you are modeling CN, then you might want to consider the 2-6-0 Bachmann. The prototype was used for freight and passenger. If that can’t handle your track, then you need to change it. By the way, articulated locos were rare in Canada… Simon
Thank you all for the advise. Yes, well…I guess it’s back to the drawing board [:P]. The first half of my layout is actually a kit from Woodland Scenics. It’s basically a figure 8 and called “Grand Valley”. Except for the 60 and 90 degree crossings it works quite well. I recently replaced the stock code 83 crossings with code 100 and they are better now but still far from perfect. The Y6b really jumps around when it goes over them) In short, I loathe them. [8o|].
I then used the same materials (WS risers and inclines) to construct another rather large curvy section of layout with lots of elevation that I call Grand Valley East. Looking back I really wish I had more straight track and less inclines. Not an easy plan for someone starting out. The good thing is that most of it works; it’s the same 4 or 5 trouble spots that keep coming back to haunt me (bridges, turn-outs, crossings, and inclines and sharp curves). I have spent weeks ripping track out, re-applying paster cloth and track mat over risers and then testing. Sometimes I will get trains running smoothly, only to find next week that they are derailing on the same spots again. I live the in the tropics, Humidity? I think my Y6B may be slighly out of kilter now because it details a lot easier than it used to.
This week I will purchase more track, some of it is pretty dodgy now from being pulled out so many times (rails being held down by glue). I will also re-do some of the less than perfect curves using the yard stick, or will purchase a ribbon rail gauge. One of the curves is not a real curve as was mentioned above. It does have a fairly abrupt angle that some cars do not mind but others dislike. Again, thank you for the advise. I have also made a list of all the more forgiving locos, wheel configurations, couplers and turn-outs for future reference. One thing I am confused about is that the code 83 crossings and some of my turn-outs WERE installed perfectly and they still ca
I too have track problems but not with the radius. I can run smaller 6 axel diesels with no trouble but my steamers find a fault with my track laying. The odd thing is that each steamer finds it’s own piece of track it doesn’t like but will fly over track the others don’t like.
To sum it up…I’m ripping up the problem areas and relaying. The track is the foundation of the layout and just like a house with a poor foundation it will be difficult to live with.
Bite the bullet now and get the track right for years of pleasure.
Bob
And I guess the poor children in Guatamala didn’t choose their parents carefully did they - maybe they should have chosen some nice middle class parents in America.
Another vote for relaying. BTW, this is why I like to use track nailes and spike to fasten my track down, because I have found relaying track is something that is usually necessary for parts of the layout - and if you don’t like the looks of nail heads in the middle of the ties, after you have had a good chance to test the track and make sure it is smooth and all your engines can run through it all, then you can ballast it and pull the nails out. The ballast adhesive should hold it firmly in place.
If you don’t want to relay the track, Bachmann claims Thomas will run on a 15" radius but the set comes with an 18" radius circle. Percy, being an 0-4-0 vs 0-6-0 like Thomas, would probably run better.
First a 2-8-0,2-8-2,2-6-0,2-6-2,4-6-2 and 4-6-0 will handle those 18" curves.Some 2-8-4s as well.
However.
I also recommend relaying your track with larger curves if layout space permits.
The 18" curve is a necessary evil for small layouts due to space limitations and one will do well to remember 18" curves requires short wheel base engines and nothing larger then a 70’ passenger car.