Are there ever freight trains that have passenger cars connected to them, in non-revenue situations?
For example if a passenger car or cars come fresh out of the factory, or are sent from repair or refurbishment, are they coupled to a freight train in transit? Or do passenger cars only get attached to passenger trains?
If this does occur, can anyone post pictures of such a situation?
I don’t have any pictures because it was years ago, but in the early 90s, the then Southern Pacific “Magma Turn” local delivered a couple of old passenger cars to the Chandler Railroad Museum. This particular train was composed of sulphuric acid tank cars, boxcars and gondolas for copper ingots, lumber cars (center beam flats), and those two passenger cars. It was an interesting sight.
A few months ago, here in central PA on the NS mainline, I saw a freight with a MARC passenger car. I wished I wasn’t driving at the time so I could have snagged a pic since a MARC car in central PA heading north just isn’t normally seen.
Ungern
Amtrak will haul private passenger cars, but if you want it dropped somewhere besides a terminal where they are prepared to add and drop cars, it’s moving by freight train.
Passenger cars being moved in freight trains is not that uncommon of a occurrence. One restriction that normally applies it that there is a trailing tonnage limit placed on passenger cars, for this reason they will generally be at the rear of the train that is handling the car.
If the cars is to be occupied, passenger charges have to be paid for a minimum number of tickets…I think, for my carrier, that charge amounts to 17 First Class fares between origin and destination…how that amount is derived and calculated since we are a freight only carrier I have no idea, although there may be some arcane Passenger Tariff on file that is used to support this operation.
CP has made four or five moves so far this year of brand new commuter rail passenger cars from the Bombardier plant in Thunder Bay, ON down through the Quad Cities for interchange in Kansas City, MO. These have been for New Mexico Railrunner and Utah Transit. These have always traveled near the end of freight trains, and of course are unoccupied.
Here is a picture of two Utah Frontrunner cars in a CP freight having coming through Detroit and bound for interchange in Kansas City.
I’ve hauled a couple coaches. As others have pointed out - they have to be on the rear. There was a case or 2 of coaches being transported on the head end of a long heavy train and being “crunched” when the slack came in.
When I’ve had them, orders were to handle on the rear (or one from teh rear, since the ones I handled did not have enough space above the knuckle to hook up an EOT), and to not couple it to a GE widebody locomotive, since the diaphragm would damage the pilot of a GE. Might have also been something about not coupling it to any locomotive with a snowplow for likely the same reason.
Very interesting, I thought that freight railroads did not allow occupied passenger cars period! That they would only ferry them empty!
We frequently transport new NJ Transit cars. Always on the rear, and because the NJT cars are usually gallery cars, they are subject to the HIWD rules as well.
Nick
It has been quite some time since I have seen this occur. With today’s litigious society and the carriers increasing interest in limiting liability exposure, I suspect they are no longer permitting it.
What are HIWD rules?
To expand from above: Passenger car movements are usually billed as “Passenger Car, Empty, MOOW (Moving On Own Wheels).” Passengers are neither sought nor wanted, as the possibility of them getting either hurt doing something unsafe and stupid or into mischief is too great. If some sort of keeper is deemed necessary to ride and keep watch over the car, be assured that the shipper pays some sort of add-on to the basic freight rate for carrying him, and for incurring the risk inherent in doing so.
It’s been awhile, but I have seen a few “high-wide / high-value” special train movements that included an occupied rider coach. These are usually manufacturer’s representatives who are there to regularly inspect the shipment and report any delays or exceptions in handling.
When rocket motors were transported from Utah to Florida, some members of the Promontory Chapter of the NRHS accompanied the move, riding in a car owned by the chapter. Sad to say, I cannot provide any more detail on the movements.
I promise that whenever we hump passenger cars in our freight yard, we treat 'em like they’ve got riders!
In 2000 I was waiting at a crossing for a Wisconsin Central freight to clear an intersection in Stevens Point, Wisconsin and was stunned to see between 2 and 4 (memory not clear on the number) scruffy looking passenger cars in the consist. To be honest, I wondered if they were going somewhere to be scrapped for parts or metal content.
HIgh and WiDe. NJ Transits gallery cars are frequently outside our dimension profile, and have special movement restrictions.
Nick
One day in the very early days of Conrail, when Conrail was operating the lines now owned and operated by Metro North out of Grand Central Terminal, about 1972 or there abouts, I was on my usual reverse-commute jaunt from Manhattan to my White Plains office, riding one of the new M-1 mu trains. The train lost power about Crestwood. Apparently, a door open safety interlock relay opened up on one of the cars, could not be located, and the train simply would not power, even with the engineer relocated in a cab in the front of the third car, receiving radio instructions from the conductor in the front cab. Behind us was the daily Conrail peddler freight, an adapter coupler was found, and we got pushed as a mix-ed train to the North White Plains Station, making the station stops at Scardale, Hartsdale, and Whie Plains.
I rode several mixed trains as a youngster, including the Suncook Valley, Concord-Pittsfield NH, the MoPacs Witchita-Herendon connection for the Colorado Eagle, a mixed with a Pullman, and the international interurban, part of the Ratian Railway narrow gauge system, from St. Moritz, Switzerland, to Tirrano, Italy, with two mu cars hauling about six mixed freight cars, including a tank car. In several towns we tied up the main street while locals loaded and unloaded packages from the LCL box car, usually into or from horse drawn wagons (year 1960).
In reverse, during WWII, most of the Florida streamliners and the Southerner left Penn Station southbound with a special PRR box car with high speed trucks and steam and communication lines to get priority war material to some southern defense plant in a hurry, tucked right between the GG1 and the Budd combine-dorm car.
In the passenger era, there were many Railway Express cars that looked like freight box cars but had running gear that was fully compatable for passenger operations. Many carriers operated Mail & Express trains so as to keep the ‘head end’ work off their flyers.
Speaking of freight with handlers/passenger cars:
Back in the '70’s when I was growing up in Thomson, GA I used to visit the depot agent (thank for your patience Mr. Milford) often after school and during the summers. On one occasion the crossing gates went off unexpectedly. We went out of the depot and a train of “heavy water” was approaching. The train was maybe 10-15 cars long including the passenger cars of guards dispersed in the train. This was during the height of the cold war thus the secrecy and security of the nuclear materials. (still have no idea what “heavy water” is exactly).
Jay