http://rmossphotography.com/trolley/
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Very nice. Thanks. Great way to spend a Saturday morning.
So, BaltACD…if you and the good citizens of Maryland woke up tomorrow morning and the Hagerstown and Frederick Rwy was there intact, I am 100% sure it would be a very good thing. Regular and frequent service would displace a lot of auto traffic and would provide reliable and assured parcel and courier deliveries. In addition to providing good employment it would also be a societal benefit.
Too bad these systems could not survive their times because I believe if somehow they upgraded and modernized through the years they would be a very integral part of these communities. Their time may come yet again, in a new form, but I firmly think that is in the future.
They are gone and not missed in 21st Century Maryland. They were defeated by two lane barely passable highways and the Model T and Model A’s and other vehicles of the day and basically out of business by 1938, despite the continuation of service to Thrumount until 1954. The surprising thing to me is that the H&F is the origin of PEPCO, one of the major electric companies in Maryland.
I believe somwhere it was remarked that the trip from Frederick to Hagerstown with stops was apporximately 2 hours. My home is 30 miles East of Frederick and my daughter lives just outside Hagerstown (near the Antietem Battlefield) and it takes me less than an hour, door to door.
Well yes I understand what occurred, and with all of them…however, I did carefully qualify my statement by stating “if somehow they upgraded and modernized through the years”…had that been viable, which it was not, not at least without governmental policies and financial assistance, then a modern system would be in place today and your trip presumably would not take 2 hours. The point is moot because we as a society chose not to go that way. I do believe there is a future for light rail interurban systems. Not sure about streetcars, perhaps in the big cities. Toronto sure believes in them.
Anyways, it was a fun recollection of images… some of us have remeberances of them and very fond memories.
The town and city folk still talk about them with pride and affection.
Hagerstown street corner
Fabulous Wanswheel…meet you at the Keystone Luncheonette and we can have a “real” Coca-Cola…when it would fizz right up your nose, and watch and listen to the streetcars for a while.
Nice street lamps too…wonder if they are still there…doubt it but you never know.
Here is the fundamental problem with mass transit, especially rural/suburban mass transit in America.
I live in the rural suburbs of Maryland as well. Almost every time I get in my car (or my big F250 pickup I use for work), I am either taking something somewhere, or bringing something home from somewhere, or both.
I’m not real fond of carrying stuff any great distances, especially if there is a lot of it (like groceries) or if it is heavy. And, I’m not real fond of walking long distances in unpleasant weather, rain, snow, cold, extreem heat.
And carring large objects on trains/mass transit is problematic to say the least…
I suspect most people feel the same as me about this…
I live only 8 houses from what was once a stop on the Ma & Pa Railroad, which managed to stay in operation into the 50’s.
But if it was still there today, it would be of little value. Partly for the reason explained above, and mainly because it simply did not go to the places I need to go.
I suspect most of America feels exactly l
Atlantic Central/Sheldon- Well Ok good points there, well stated. The life style you have is not the same as everyone else…there are teens, elderly, those that do not drive, those without a comfortable middle class lifestyle and those that may take transit sometimes to get a break. Actually I believe a more rural or suburban setting is the best scenario for this, not a big nasty city. An hour on the hour every hour service would provide convieniet and dependable transportation along with a scheduled drop off for parcels and deliveries.
I realize I’m out in a little rubber dinghy in the middle of the Pacific on this one and it’s fairly easy to shoot a hole in my dinghy. It does not have to be an all or nothing scenario…if service were there it does not mean you cannot drive your nice work provided F250. Many people would find it a boon, including business’s.
I still say the day will come when both are a necessity.
Again, I’m actually in favor of mass transit where it can be effective. In fact, I would even look at ways to make it free or lower cost than current urban systems.
I’m self employed, I am a historic restoration consultant, residential designer and old house master carpenter, I provide my own F250…sometimes I’m on a job site, other times I work from home.
The biggest problem is that most human “settlements” (communities) are “circular” and trains are “linear”. Trains work in cities by virture of east/west - north/south grids, or hub and spoke systems - that is how the old Baltimore trolley network was. Baltimore has a grid downtown, but it quickly transforms into a radial street plan “uptown” which provided an excellent trolley network - bringing people to/from downtown and the residential areas.
Building such a network in Bel Air near where I live would be near about impos
Atlantic Central/Sheldon- 5 Stars! Good Good!
Some of the light rail systems do in fact resurrect the kind of service and use an advanced form of the technology that the interurbans provided. And some do in fact have decent passenger loads and are clearly a great benefit today totheir communities. And those that continue to use private cars benefit by reduced traffice congestion or no great increase in congestion as population increases.
Dave sums it up very nicely. Someday we will have the very best of both worlds.
Hagerstown again, probably same day as the football parade.
Hagerstown Brewing Co.
BaltACD- Do you know if the building that housed the Hagerstown Brewing Company is still there? Are the track’s still there?..any of them?
Wanswheel- Great find and posting. I personally witnessed those scenes a zillion times, not there of course, but it was a scene repeated everywhere several times a day. …and am glad I recall the sounds, smells, the “air” …all of it.
In one scene with a workman walking alongside a coach, the coach appears to have no lettering…any thoughts or am I wrong about this.
Miningman, I think the unlettered coach is in the ‘Hagerstown station’ picture, car 3313(?), ahead of the Railway Post Office car in this train:
Wanswheel- Thank you…fascinating.
3 seperate Railroad stations and the streetcar/interurban. Must have been great to be a kid in Hagerstown in those days.
My town had 2 stations, one shared by Wabash, CNR and Pere Marquette, the other the Lake Erie and Northern interurban. CNR had 2 branches emanating from town, both to ports on Lake Erie.
The Canada Southern was just to the North of this and we resided along its mainline.
Those everyday scenes depicted can apply to almost anywhere, just change the lettering on the cars. Very little of that remains.
Too many questions to keep track of.
Hagerstown Brewing is long gone. The WM tracks were moved out of the street to an elevated alignment on the other side of the station about 60 years ago. The little alleyway that ran parallel to the old WM alignment was widened considerably, and is now Burhans Blvd. The old WM passenger station and office building is now the Hagerstown Police Dept. At one time in the very distant past, there were actually at least four steam road passenger stations in Hagerstown. These were the main WM station, the nearby Cumberland Valley (PRR) station, the B&O station at Summit Ave. & Antietam St. across from the Dagmar Hotel (current site of the Hagerstown Herald-Mail newspaper), and a little-known secondary WM station on the north side on N. Potomac Ave.
Most, but not all, of the downtown buildings are still there, including the Hotel Alexander. The Keystone Luncheonette is long gone, but there are some other very nice places in the downtown area now to take its place, so you can still get your Coca Cola, although I’m not sure whether it will fizz up Miningman’s nose. Some of those old street lamps still exist in the area of Potomac & Washington, as shown in the photos, but the’ve been supplemented by taller, more modern lamps.
At least three H&F cars exist: A passenger car at the Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum, a freight motor at Thurmont, MD, and a passenger car in private hands on private property near the old right of way. The building that served as H&F’s Hagerstown carbarn still exists at Summit Avenue & Lee St.
The “unlettered” coach appears to be a PRR P70, and the PENNSYLVANIA lettering is barely visible on the letterboard.
Of course WM 4-6-2 202 is preserved at Hagerstown City Park; a WM Baldwin diesel switcher and a GE 45 tonner from a local industry are at the Roundhouse Museum; and several WM, B&O, and RDG cabooses are preserved in town, too. There are a couple of items o
ACY/Tom- Terrific stuff. Thanks for the answers. It’s important to connect the dots. Glad to hear some of the street lights are still around.
One last question ( if you don’t mind) …what is “delicious Maryland food” as seen on the banner in the Hotel Alexander picture? Now I know what delicious food is but what makes it “Maryland”. Maybe I should go down there this summer and find out, if you still have it that is.
Sadly, Coca-Cola not the same…for starters they used real sugar back then not corn starch stuff and the ingredients were super high grade, the real deal, nothing was processed, or less expensive “substitutes”.