Hand-Laid Turnouts

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Anyone out there have experience with the handlaid turnouts from Fast Track? From the testamonials on their website it would seem they are less error-prone than some of the standard cookie-cutter turnouts available, and they have covered considerably more options in types than you can usually find. They are, however, more expensive unless you are going to be doing a lot of them. Testamonials only accentuate the good stuff. Are there some drawbacks from those of you who might have experience with them?

Thanks for the help

DrBob

2

DrBob.

While I have no experience with the Fast Tracks turnout templates, I had thought about getting one set. After looking at the prices and for one size turnout using one rail size I quickly changed my mind. Instead I have been building Central Valley turnouts and use home made jigs for making all rail frogs. They are not hard and work very good. Another plus is that they take several different rail sizes. I just finished a #5 left hand using code 55 rail. Most of the ones I have done are code 70 and code 83. I have probably built 20 turnouts of different sizes of rail for the price of one size FT set. I would suggest getting a CV turnout kit and try it for yourself.

Pete

3

I love them and the only downside I’ve is encountered is the cost as you have already discovered. I never would have had the courage to attempt building my own turnouts without the handholding that FastTracks provided. The whole experience is very welcoming, from the very well engineered jigs to the nice website, the instructional videos and documentation, to the excellent customer support. They run a very classy operation.

Unfortunately, knowing the people on this forum, this thread will probably get hijacked quickly by people that will flame Fasttracks and the people that use them because “real men dont need jigs” and the fact that there are cheaper alternative approaches. I’ve tried to respond directly to your question about what drawbacks exist. My answer is cost, but if you can absorb that you should find them to be very good. If you have any other questions feel free to message me directly. I wont stick around here to witness the flame war that will erupt soon.

Keith

4

I believe Keith is very accurate in his description of the FastTracks system. I taught myself to hand lay track before FastTracks existed. I used Jack Work’s Birth of a Turnout in the April 1963 MR as my guide in laying my first couple of turnouts. That doesn’t make me any better of a model railroader than Keith or anybody else. It’s just the facts.

The other advantage of rolling your own without FastTracks jigs (besides cost) is that I can lay any frog number I want, lay continual curve turnouts with curved frogs, and lay curved turnouts with no more difficulty than a conventional turnout.

Regardless of whether you use FastTracks or some other method to hand lay your turnouts, handlaid turnouts normally have smoother rolling characteristics and fewer derailments than straight out-of-the box commercial turnouts. I believe there are 2 reasons for the better performance: 1) the extra care to get everything just right that is a normal part of the hand laying experience, and 2) handlaid turnouts typically extend the rails well beyond the turnout proper. The latter helps prevent misalignments at track joints near the turnout points and frog.

just my thoughts and experiences, your choices

Fred W

5

Keith,

That is a pretty negative viewpoint on your part.

You grossly underestimate the intelligence and classiness of the members of this forum.

Rich

6

In recent months a friend has built a lot of handlaid turnouts using the Fastracks jigs, including many dual-gauge turnouts. They are more reliable (fewer derailments) than the Walthers code 83 stuff. A mass-produced turnout can’t be built to closer/consistent tolerances as handlaid ones.

7

Keith

The Fast Tracks jigs are excellent for:

  1. Modelers who need a large number of one size turnout.
  2. Modelers who are unsure about their ability to master the needed skills.
  3. Modelers who intend to go into commercial custom-building.
  4. Modelers who drive Ferraris - in competition - and pay all the expenses themselves.

OTOH, the Fast Tracks turnouts are all “standard number, standard design” products, and you need to buy several jigs if you are going to use several frog sizes. They don’t help much if your heart’s desire is to create special turnouts for special circumstances, like three way turnouts with all three routes curving left. They are a good answer for some, a straitjacket for others.

I learned to assemble hand-laid specialwork from raw rail, tie stock, spikes and solder a long time before the first Fast Track jig appeared. If that were not the case, I might be more enthusiastic about them. I’m not down on them, it’s just that I don’t need them - nor do many other people.

(I don’t need DCC equipped American diesels, either. Or anything built to regular HO scale)

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL, 1:80 scale with handlaid specialwork)

8

I must admit that hand laid turnouts appeal to me, at least in theory. I have thought about them, on and off, for a long time now.

This thread prompted me to look a little further into the whole issue of hand laid turnouts. I went to the Fast Tracks web site and watched the introductory video, then cruised the web site looking at the different topics and the different products.

It strikes me that there are three principal considerations regarding hand laid turnouts, in this instance, Fast Tracks - - - cost, time, and skill.

In terms of cost, as already pointed out, the start up costs are pretty high. So, you better be prepared to build a lot of turnouts to achieve a break even cost with the purchase of commercially available turnouts. As has also been pointed out, an expensive template is required for each type of turnout, straight, curved, wye, 3-way, double slip, whatever. Moreover, if you need different size turnouts such as a #8 curved turnout with two different sets of radii for inner and outer curves, then you need two (expensive) different templates. The templates are not adjustable.

In terms of time, the hand laid turnout price can be time consuming,. The web site suggests 4 hours for the first turnout, then scaling down the required time to maybe 1 or 1 1/2 hours for subsequent turnouts. I would be willing to bet that it would take a lot longer than that unless you really got practiced at what you were doing.

In terms of skill, the two most significant skills are filing and soldering. Neither one of these skills is hard to achieve, at least in a basic sense. But filing of point rails, in particular, requires some perfected skill level, and proper soldering techniques on rail joining has to take a fair amount of time to master.

Fast Tracks does sell a lot of different tools to facilitate hand laying track. Even though this adds to the cost, if I were going to hand lay track, I would ha

9

since you’re interested in building hand laid turnouts anyhow, and will need materials, why don’t you buy some rail and spikes and try building a turnout on a bench to see how it turns out?

i was motivated by a Tony Koester video and article (ping me). The materials will cost just a couple bucks. you’ll need to file, solder and spike just as you would with the templates.

When i tried this on the bench, i didn’t worry about ties, i did it on a piece of ceiling tile (but homasote would have be better). I later bought PC ties, which help better locate and re-locate rails when i built the turnouts on my layout.

give it a try. You may be surprised by the results. At most you’ll be out a couple bucks and have practiced the same skills you’d need with the templates.

greg

10

greg,

With me, and I would guess with a lot of others, hand laying turnouts in the manner you suggest is as intimidating a thought as scratch building a complex structure.

The thought of hand laying a turnout without jigs or templates is just too daunting.

Rich

11

No hands on experience with FastTracks, but they are being used on the layout of one of our NMRA members with success. He never handlaid any track previously, but had good results right away with the jigs. They operate well and are nice and sturdy, which is not what people often think when they hear “handlaid” track. He’s not yet to the point of ballasting things, but they look good to me.

As for custom sized turnouts, yep, the FastTracks jig doesn’t allow for that right in the jig. As someone already mentioned, the rails can be extended beyond the jig, so you can fit them well in most cases. It’s only when you’re trying to squeeze in the last inch or two where this becomes a factor, so in most cases this issue is irrelevant. And if you weren’t planning in doing turnouts freehand, you still ahead of store-bought in terms of having various options for compact trackage.

I also suspect that after a few built in the jig, you’ll actually pick up many of the skills that are needed for freehand track laying. From there, it’s an easy step up to doing turnouts without the jig, instead of the great leap it would otherwise be.

As for cost, I’ve heard that the break-even point is less than 10, i.e. if you have plans for more than 10 turnouts of a particular jig size, then you’ll be money ahead by purchasing the jig and building them yourself vs. buying them off the shelf.

FYI, I’m a Shinohara/Walthers/ME RTR track sort of guy myself, although I’ve hacked a few dual-gauge turnouts for custom fits (another way to make turnouts that fit your needs) and laid one HO/HOn3 crossing. If I wasn’t so far along with the layout when FastTracks came on the market, I’d be seriously considering them based on what I’ve heard and seen. I have way more than 10 turnouts in every size and that could saved me some real money.

12

i think it’s worth repeating

why not spend just a couple bucks on material, an hour of time and try building a turnout, practicing the same skills you you would need using the templates? You may be surprised by the results, and it won’t seem so intimidating.

greg

13

I think that the leap from commercially built turnouts to totally hand laid turnouts without jigs or templates is just too great.

I could see where someone who has successfully built quality turnouts using something like Fast Tracks jigs and templates might decide to build additional turnouts without the use of jigs and templates. But, a novice turnout builder faces a giant learning curve, and to attempt to build a hand laid turnout without relying on professional jigs and tools, he is facing a real uphill battle.

Rich

14

Rich,

Handlaid track is more about technique than tools. You don’t want to skimp on tools, but it’s really more about following a process to get things in gauge and working. The most critical tool is the soldering iron, but most have that anyway.

My HO/HOn3 crossing was surprisingly easy to build. All I had to go by was the Carstens trackwork book instructions. It COULD be prettier, but it works just fine – right from the start. In fact, it’s amazingly reliable, say in comparison to your typical RTR turnout.

BUT, don’t take this as egging you on. Like many things in model railroading, for some things it’s just best to go with RTR unless you feel comfortable with your own skill. The above is just something that I wanted to report as a positive. Handlaid track intimidated me for 4 decades, but once I decided to try it, it wasn’t that big a deal. I may have to try a turnout – someday[:O]

15

Hello Dr. Bob.

I used the FT tools to build all the turnouts for my current layout. I bought and used two sizes: 4.5 & 6.

Before I made the commitment to FT I tried a Central Valley turnout kit. For my limited skills I found the kit finicky and dificult to achieve reliable operation.

The first FT turnout I built was a dud. But the lessons learned from that expereience allowed me to build all remaining turnouts with no rework. The turnouts are reliable and EXTREMELY smooth. Many will comment that no tools other than an anvil and ball peen hammer are required to construct turnouts. Sadly my life experience to this point has not granted me those common skills - I need to work with what the good Lord has given me - so I defer to more robust tools and methods.

The FT turnouts do not have tie-plate details, so if that is important to you it will be a show-stopper. My expereince is that after the track is painted and ballasted I do not note the lack of tie-plates.

I built turnouts in batches, four to six at a time. Including cleaning, gluing and painting, I don’t think I ever got to less than two hours per unit. I did devise a couple tricks not detailed in the FT literature and would be willing to share those if you are interested.

There is a lot of comments on cost. Like everything else in this hobby that is a personal balance you need to strike on your own. My view (please don’t flame me) is that this hobby is a financial pit; if I was looking for ROI I would invest my time and money in other areas.

Good luck, I’m sure you will be happy with whatever course you choose.
Dwayne A

16

The only real disadvantages I can see are:

  1. Cost of the jig if you aren’t amortizing it over a good number of turnouts.
  2. The quality of the finished product is variable depending on your own skills.
  3. There is a limited variety of turnout configurations for custom work.

Most customers of the Fast Tracks jigs seem to be able to produce good turnouts with a little practice, so the learning curve for #2 isn’t necessarily steep. Once you develop your skills, you should be able to assemble a custom turnout to fit any special application where standard geometry won’t work.

17

Dual post…sorry

18

(sarcasm) You know what, all the Nay-sayers are correct…

1. No one in their right mind should try something with too much of a learning curve. Why try if it is hard?

2. No one in their right mind should spend any length of time building something that is available commercially. Are you stupid?

3. No one is allowed to speak about how they enjoy that ‘lofty’ part of our hobby because if you do, you are labeled as elitist or snobby (speaking from experience).

4. The assumption is make that no one has more money than thou. No one is allowed to have more expendable cash than me. The fact is that some of us can pay more than others.

5. The assumption was made that Fasttracks is only intended this to be bought only by a select few. Yup, we know what they are thinking…what the heck ARE they thinking?

6. The assumption is made that the Jigs have to bought and not borrowed from fellow modelers. We are all stupid lone-wolfs?

7. The assumption is made that you are on your own when building turnouts…(read no friends). Again, friends can help us.

8. The assumption is that everyone in our hobby is fixated on RTR. Is someone who purchases RTR in the same league as the stratch-builder? (/sarcasm)

Personally, I have lots of experience with Fasttracks. And, yes the upstart was expensive for me, but it was worth it.

But, now, I have acquired skills that allows me to build turnouts without a jig (but I still use their templates as a guide).

I have ONE frog point tool. #12

I have ONE stock rail tool. CD40/55

I have ONE frog helper. #8,10,12

That is al

19

David,

I couldn’t have said it better myself!

20

Fasttrack jigs and tools, build the turnouts freehand, buy commercial turnouts, what’s the difference. Have fun, do it the way meets your needs. and punch out anybody tries to tell you you’re doing it wrong!