Again, I am not suggestion changing anything that is reliable and repairable and/or replacable in kind. Quite the contrary. What I am suggestion is using the best off-the-shelf parts available to replace anything that is not reliable AND not repairable AND not replacable in kind. I agree that changing the GG1 to something else and just keeping the body shell would be a tragedy. What I would like is for the GG-1 to be restored, operational, and very reliable, the kind of restoration that Amtrak would welcome on its NEC for the good publicity it would draw and possibly even for the added revenue it would bring. It would still be a restoration and not a modernization or rebuilding. Does anyone know if there is a cashe of GG-1 spare parts anywhere?
I also think that with some very clever planning and using state of the art technology, it should be possible to shoe-horn head-end power into the locomotive without removing the boiler and water tank. I think a diesel power unit is rediculous when there is all the power in the overhead wire. Whether or not the boiler and water tank have to be removed, it is entirely feasible to run a separate lead from each pantograph to run the new electronics to provide three-phase 60Hz 440V AC to the coaches. For the train to look authentic, no obvious power car, even a car with a pantograph, is a must. Also, 25Hz power will remain on the NEC south of Sunnyside for a long time to come, and I think most would rather restrict the GG-1 to operation on the lines for which it was built than to see it modified to run on electrifications with different characteristcs.
If in 25 years, the power is changed to 60Hz, then a power car looking like a baggage car would be essential. Instead of its own pantograph, the GG-1’s panatographs would still pick up the power, and there would be six fat jumper cables to the power car where the conversion solid state electronics would be located, with the power going from the GG-1 to the power car and back to the GG
In answer to HighIron2003ar’s question early on in this thread, the GG1 at Strasburg is not the one that crashed through the floor at DC Union Station. The one involved in that crash is stored in the Mt. Clare Yard in Baltimore, MD and is in the possession of the B&O Museum. In order for the locomotive to be removed, it was cut into three pieces and hauled out, reassembled, and put back in service. It was one of the last G’s in service and with that, I would love to see at least it operationally restored. I remember seeing one being towed from somewhere to somewhere else when I rode the train across PA in 1990. It sure is an impressive beast.
There are other designs of ‘flexible drives’ in use around the world too - their purpose is to minimise the ‘unsprung weight’ (mass) of the axle assembly and hence reduce the dynamic forces on the track at speed. Otherwise locomotives running at high speeds would (almost literally) hammer the track to pieces as they pass over joints, switches, crossings etc.
British Rail learnt this lesson the hard way back in the late 1960’s when they built a fleet of 100mph electric locos with nose-hung traction motors and 20 ton axle loads. After the track started to suffer badly they had to retro-fit most of them with resilient wheels to reduce the track forces - the remainder were restricted to 75mph top speed and used for freight. All the electric passenger locos built in the UK after that have had fully sprung, frame-mounted motors with flex
I was briefly approached about serving on the Amtrak board a couple years ago. To date nothing has come of it like the 3-4 people put up for board membership have never been confirmed by the Senate. Who knows, it may come through, but I am not holding my breath.
Should I be appointed there are some things I would seriously investigate:
Restore a steam enging and several vintage coaches to run excursion service. Think this would be a revenue producer.
REBUILD A GG-1 and run it on the NEC. Again think this would be a money maker.
Increase the frequency (and speed) of passenger trains. One train from Dallas to Austin per day taking 6 hours will not attract business riders. Four to 6 RTs per day traveling at a higher speed so you can be competative with airlines would be great.
Restore passenger service to additional core lines. What about a Sunset Limited connection at El Paso through Dallas-Fort Worth to Medidian Miss then on to DC? There are numerous lines like this that can be returned to service.
Market quality vacation travel. Look at our neighbors to the north (including Alaska).
Educate Congress on the benefits of Amtrak. Point out that there is no transit system, be it air, water or road, that pays its entire way through the fare box. Why should Amtrak be the only one to do it. (Mission Impossible???)
Having grown up with GG1’s, E44’s, E33’s, Metroliners and E60’s, I can tell you watching trains in the 60’s and 70’s was very exciting. When one first spotted a headlight in the distance, the question was, what kind of engine is on this train?It could be anything, but usually it was a G. It seemed every other train was powered by a G. Most people by the NEC got used to seeing the GG1.I always loved this engine, and never got tired of seeing her. Watching trains now with my son, I miss the old engines very much. If we were trackside now, and I saw a GG1 on the point, pulling ANYTHING, I would be in heaven! I don’t care how it sounded, as long as it still had the Leslie Typhoon horn. It could be powered by briggs and stratton for all I care, as long as it was RUNNING! So, lets start a program to revive at least one of these magnificent machines before it is too late. What we need is a trainfan, but one who has experience within the Railroad shop area. A current or former RR employee would be great. I can and would donate cash as well as elbow grease to this cause. Lets not sit here and complain about the cost, money can be raised. This is America, money in not the issue! We can get the money. The real problem is getting the right kind of people to oversee this project. I have read all there is about the GG1, but I still don’t know how to fix one! Take the guts out of the E60 sitting at Strasburg and swap it in. How? I dont know, but SOMEONE does. Please come forward. Lets do it!
…Can we confirm the GG-1 at Strasburgh IS the first one produced…I took pic’s of it right after the museum was opened but don’t have my pic’s in front of me…The one inside the building…{at my visit}, was the riveted body as opposed to welded.
Believe it is: 4800
Could I add a seventh?
7. Work on employee courtesy.
Almost all Amtrak employees I have met are very nice and will go out of their way to make you feel good, but every so often you meet one who isn’t so nice… It doesn’t take much effort to treat each other well, but it takes even less work to ruin somebody’s day.
Anyway:
Dear Dave,
I’m sorry, I didn’t fully understand your prior postings. Now that you’ve clarified, I can see that your changes aren’t so radical, and I feel that
The crash occured because the brake line between two of the cars, I believe #4 and 5, had been left closed. This meant that when the engineer applied the brakes, they only applied in the locomotive and the first four cars. Most likely the engineer cut the throttle down all the way before doing this and then applied the brakes for the scheduled stop. When the train didn’t slow, he applied the emergency brakes, which really didn’t have any further effect on the speed. Brakes on a few cars aren’t very effective when you have 20+ heavy cars behind you still traveling at close to their original speed.
GG1 4876 is in Baltimores Mt Clare Yard,but is in seriously bad condition.
It is allmost beyond any kind of restoration,she is really rusty,black paint peeling,
graffitied,broken pantographs, missing most wiring,and controls.
I think 4876 is a half step away from the scrappers torch.
Apparently the B&O museum does not care about this locomotive for it has
been sitting there for at least 10 years,and no effort to preserve her.[:(]
Having been a great fan of the old 611 and having rode it many times, and loving the experience, as well as most of the rail related attractions from Maine to NC I hate to rain on our parade, but one of the previous posts hit the spike right on the head.
It would be unlikely that any railroad would permit any vintage equipment like that to run their rails anymore because of the liability issue. I remember when the 611 wrecked down here in Chesapeake and the N&W owned the locomotive, the tracks, the cars and the court settlements. Soon after 611 ended up in a shed in Roanoke, probably forever. Plus these excursions can block revenue producing traffic as well…so no matter how these excursions run, they can cost the host railroad a lot of money with little in return…
The RR Museum of Pennsylvania has three GG1’s in its collection. Number 4935 is on display in the rolling stock hall. The 4935 has had a complete cosmetic restoration to its as-built 1943 appearance, including very shiny coat of Brunswick Green paint with the original 5 gold stripes. It was first restored in 1977, and donated to the museum by Russell Wilcox in 1983. If you think you don’t like Brunswick Green, pay this motor a visit and it’ll make you a believer. (Note that an electric locomotive was a ‘motor’ to PRR man.)
The 4800, the prototype, aka “Old Rivits” is on display in the outside yard. It was owned by the Lancaster Chapter NHRS until donated to the museum in 2000, which explains why the 4935 had dibs in the spot inside. It was the only example with rivited rather than welded body, hence the nickname. I believe this engine is still wearing Tuscan Red with five stripes (somewhat faded now). I think most fans like this paint scheme best, though only 10 units ever wore it, and the 4800 wasn’t one of them. Interestingly, this engine one of group re-geared for freight service. It went to PC, then Conrail, and wore both a unique Bicentennial scheme and Conrail Blue.
The 4877 was last operated by NJ Transit and was restored to Tuscan Red a few years before its retirement. Its now owned by the United Railway Historical Society, and is in storage in NJ Transit’s Hoboken yard. Another unit is on display next to the fairgrounds in Syracuse, NY, and last I knew there was one at the National Railway Museum in St Louis.
I think that a very reliable and thorough restoration of a GG-1 with the money to do the right job, and paying Amtrak for some time in the Wilmington shops regardless of where the actual restoration is done, and a thorough inspection and test runs by Amtrak’s own mechanical people would allow railfans to use the GG-1 in charter service in the Corridor. It will take millions, certainly, but it can be done, with enough money behind it, Amtrak will be glad for the added revenue. They are not in position of NS to turn down something that is sure to add to the bottom line. If the excursions were initially restricted to weekends, and the four track territory between Philadelphia and Newark, Amtrak would note that track capacity exists and flexibility at crossover points, so any breakdowns (and the overhaul and inspection work should make this impossible) would not seriously affect schedules service by them or SEPTA or NJT.
The rolling stock must be in similar fine condition. This can be use of weekend-surplus existing Amtrak, NJT, or SEPTA coaches or a fully restored classic PRR train. For the latter I would recommend first: rehabbing the ex-Congressional and ex-Senator Budd equipment of 1952. The coaches were built as beautifiul daytime recling seat coaches with about 20 double reversable seats in the main section, and about 14 facing inward semi-parlor seats in the smoking section at the end away from the single vestibule (platform). About 54 seats altogether. An etched glass partition divided the two sections, possbly without a door. The diners and parlors matched. And there were blunt-end parlor observations at the rear. Much of this equipment was reseated with high-density commuter-like seating, high-back but non-reclining, (some cars non-reversable!) by Amtrak when equipped for head-end power and used in Clocker (NY-Phila) and Keystone service, where some may still operatre. Some is at tourist operations.
Another possibility would be genuine PRR smooth-side lightwe
Tom: I must have done my visit {summer of '83}, right before the 4800 was moved outside at the Pennsylvania Museum…The place was almost new then and I’m almost certain the photos I took of the GG-1…{inside the building}, are of “old rivets”…
…Welcome to the forum.
Agree fully with you. My thoughts were just made up quickly. I am sure that IF I were on the board I could come up with atleast 100 projects to work on.
Thanks for your imput. Don’t hold your breath waiting to read about me being appointed. Bush has had 6 years to get his act together to do it and I am a card carrying Republician.
Folks, don´t forget the GG1 in Green Bay, Wisc. Standing close to a BIG BOY!.
It´s most unlikely that either one of them can run again. At least under own power.
But I like the idea that a GG1 is “pushed around”. This would come at least a bit
close to old times, at least to see a GG1 running (or rather moving).
For such special trips, the problem of the small cabs should be “forgotten”
since this would be no regular(=often) trips.
Hmm - are your unions that strict? Would they not agree to the occasional exceptional run? - we’re not talking about frequent operations, I presume.
One other possibility: don’t the DOT have a test track somewhere, that would be off-line for TU activities. Or has that gone?
I realise all these restrictions would make the expence of rehab less viable, but …
Just some ideas!
Eric in the UK