I just got finished with the most annoying, elongated and frustrating episode in my model railroading experience: trying to file an insurance claim and receive said payment from UPS.
I had a $125 shipment of a rare, out-of-stock model I wanted, and thought, y’know, I should insure it. It delivered, unfortunately, in pieces…smashed.
So I went about filing for my claim. The obfuscations of the process, the back and forth was extraordinary, with passing the buck between UPS and Staples (the place it was shipped from), between Staples and the shipping store, back to Staples, back to UPS, back to the original vendor - who had to go through an entire byzantine process of his own - filing and refiling paperwork and claims, my being routed through phone answering trees and then sitting on line for maddeningly lengthy periods of time. If I didn’t call at each step of the process, the process stalled. In the end, all this for a $100 shipment claim. Lucky for me I had a store vendor I bouight from - an honest and sincere elderly gentleman - who was willing to go through the hassle with me…the finally sent him a check to him…and he’s sending it to me now that he finally received it. At least a 5 month process.
I came away with two conclusions: 1) the system is set up precisely to discourage claimants by being extraordinarily difficult, so that claimants either forget about it or purposely give up on it 2) It really wasn’t worth my time, in terms of even $100. It was a completely absurd waste of life energy. 3) It is pointless to ever insure any item that isn’t extraordinarily expensive, that isn’t worth the kind of time, hassle and frustration that I am convinced is formally embedded into the system.
It’s a system only a French customs official could love. I’ll never insure a package again.
Aboslutely correct. This is how many corporations and Governments too work (or don’t work).
Add one to the list: The process becomes too costly in terms of money (you already covered time) that even if you win you lose. Court is like that too.
Stock answers:
It’s someone elses problem
You are the first one with this problem
You’re just a trouble maker and therefore do not get your legal rights
(Finally - we can’t fix it) Never even an apology.
It is heartening that your vendor was a decent person. Kudos to him. Hang in there, there are still a few good people in the world.
I can’t quite agree that the insurance was useless…the insurance did pay for the damage…eventually.
As a retail store owner who ships with UPS daily, and insures most packages that we ship, there are a few things that you didn’t know, but are truisms with UPS.
First, the contract for shipping was between the original shipper and UPS. Your situation was compounded in the fact your shipper used an intermediary to contract with UPS. So the agreement was between UPS and Staples. Staples had an obligation to the original shipper (their customer). Unfortunately, the receiver…you…don’t fit in the contractual arrangement.
You should not have had to go through the process of making a claim, dealing with Staples or UPS. The original shipper is the one who lost in the damage.
UPS is usually very good with claims, when the claims are handled properly. There is a tremendous amount of fraud in UPS claims, so they do have to check all facts carefully. And it is a grevious process occasionally. My experience is that the most grevious instances involve the receiver not retaining the original packaging, or promptly notifying the shipper when there is damage. Understanding the rules and regs of UPS is the shipper (and receiver’s) responsiblility. The second area of trouble ususally is poor packaging of shipments. Everyone tries to take shortcuts, and that is when damage occurs.
If you want a good visual on what you should do to make sure a package you are shipping is properly packed, go to the local UPS terminal and take a look at the belt and sorting system that is used to move yours, and all other packages. Then remember that UPS will handle up to 125 pounds of a container, within their regulations. Now imagine that 125 pounder moving down the belt right behind your precious 18oz Athearn engine packed lovingly in Kleenex in its original blue box with some tape. You can do the math.
It is the SHIPPER’S responsibility to ship correctly, to
I’ve worked for the Swedish post for ten years. All above can be said about shipping by post as well. I do not think that people understand the huge amount of packages that are being shipped everyday and is handled quite roughly. I’ve seen people ship glass containers with liquids in them weighing perhaps 20 pounds and use nothing as insulation between the box and the bottles? People ship flex track with nothing in between them and the outside box and then complain that they are bent.
A lot of companies package things poorly. But a lot of people also complains when the company packs it wells and that makes it more expensive to ship. Somehow, the middleman(the shipping company gets to be blamed?
When I ship things I always ship things in two boxes. First one box with t
Customer service seems to be going down the tubes these days with uber corporations. I spent 8 hours (mostly on hold and constantly being transfered) trying to remove a $240 single phone call from my Verizon bill that was clearly and obviously a mistake.
When a company gives you the run around, sometimes small claims court is the best answer. It’s a ~$30->$70 filing fee. But in some states you can add this to your claim. Rather then haul out their $$$ lawyers for court, they would rather settle out of court for such a small amount.
That being said, I wish to thank the following companies for sensational customer service:
Kadee
Caboose Industries (for their ground throws)
Walthers (for willing to send me replacement parts, and instructions on OOP kits)
I just got finished with the most annoying, elongated and frustrating experience in my model railroading experience: trying to file an insurance claim and receive said payment from UPS.
I had a $125 shipment of a rare, out-of-stock model I wanted, and thought, y’know, I should insure it. It delivered, unfortunately, in pieces…smashed.
So I went about filing for my claim. The obfuscations of the process, the back and forth was extraordinary, with passing the buck between UPS and Staples (the place it was shipped from), between Staples and the shipping store, back to Staples, back to UPS, back to the original vendor - who had to go through an entire byzantine process of his own - filing and refiling paperwork and claims, my being routed through phone answering trees and then sitting on line for maddeningly lengthy periods of time. If I didn’t call at each step of the process, the process stalled. In the end, all this for a $100 shipment claim. Lucky for me I had a store vendor I bouight from - an honest and sincere elderly gentleman - who was willing to go through the hassle with me…the finally sent him a check to him…and he’s sending it to me now that he finally received it. At least a 5 month process.
I came away with two conclusions: 1) the system is set up precisely to discourage claimants by being extraordinarily difficult, so that claimants either foget about it or purposely give up on it 2) It really wasn’t worth my time, in terms of even $100. It was completely absurd waste of life energy. 3) It is pointless to ever insure any item that isn’t extraordinarily expensive, that isn’t worth the kind of time, hassle and frustration that I am convinced is formally embedded into the system.
It’s a system only a French customs official could love. I’ll never insure a package again.
My dad was an insurance adjuster for 30+ years of his life. He told me that if I ever get the run around, write my state insurance commision. Insurance companies hate it when you do that, and it encourages them to settle with you, and quickly. The main reason is the burden of proof gets shifted to them as they have to prove to the state why they AREN’T covering you. If they can’t provide it, and these claims build up, then the state can pull their license.
This does work as several large insurance companies have been refused licensure in states because of questionable practices.
I’ve worked for the Swedish post for ten years. All above can be said about shipping by post as well. I do not think that people understand the huge amount of packages that are being shipped everyday and is handled quite roughly. I’ve seen people ship glass containers with liquids in them weighing perhaps 20 pounds and use nothing as insulation between the box and the bottles? People ship flex track with nothing in between them and the outside box and then complain that they are bent.
A lot of companies package things poorly. But a lot of people also complains when the company packs it wells and that makes it more expensive to ship. Somehow, the middleman(the shipping company gets to be blamed?
When I ship things I always ship things in two boxes.
A good point to remember, whenever ordering from a seller who will ship to you, is that the seller/shipper is the only one who can file a claim for lost or damaged materials.
Be sure your seller is amenable at the outset (like the OP’s gentleman seller), for he/she is the one who must do all the legwork. Canada Post and USPS will not release any information to you the receiver, other than tracking information.
I once had a seller who was reluctant to get involved on my behalf. And I couldn’t blame him with all the rigamarole I knew he would be facing just to track down a missing $45 item.
I understood that. i got interrupted before finishing all I was going to write. I agree with on what you say. I just wanted to say that a lot of people and companies don’t know how ship things. I was not trying to imply that you did. Sorry if I came across like that.
For me insurance is good when cost goes up. Below certain amounts it’s pointless(as you say). I like the fact that some companies will fix what ever the problem is free of charge. For me those companies are:
Factory Direct
Walthers
Micro Mark
All of which solves the issue without dragging me into any process. Which is the way it should be. Both Walthers and Micro Mark replaced my orders with a minimum of fuss.
I think a lot of companies do give the run around. It works, people give up. I worked as a salesman for a while, a job I quit since I couldn’t stand the manipulation. But one thing we did when people wanted to cancel an order was giving them the run around. Telling them to phone A or B while saying that I do not have the authority to cancel the order and so on. I was disgusted by the hard sale tactics and left.
Remember, that if you received something damaged, its up to the SHIPPER to make it right. If you want to send a legal (attorney) letter…its to the shipper. They are the ones that contracted the shipping company.
It really isn’t your responsibility to deal with UPS (or whatever company) if you are the receiving party. The shipper was paid to deliver something to you in good order…its THEIR responsibility.
The problem I’ve run into is the part about the seller / shipper being the person who is actually buying the insurance, not the purchaser. I had a vintage (c.1946) wood guitar amp shipped to me that I bought on ebay. The amp had some damage, and the seller said he was told that I had to repair it then send him a copy of the bill so he could forward it to UPS or FedEx or whoever it was to file the claim. I got it repaired, and he apparently filed the claim and got the money and dropped his ebay ID and disappeared. Luckily the repair wasn’t too costly, but it does still bug me that I paid for insurance and he got the money!!
On the other hand, my wife (before we were married) had a 1920’s banjo of her grandmother’s that needed some repair / restoration work. She shipped it to a company in Michigan, and luckily listened to me and bought like $4000 insurance on it. It turned out the banjo had it’s neck snapped off in transit. Fed Ex paid off the claim, in fact it was enough to fix the damage caused in shipping and all the other restoration work too. However, we chose to go by train and pick it up rather than have it shipped back!!
I agree!! It should be up to the shipper to provide insurance. If a package never gets to you…how do you know if it was ever shipped? The shipper agreed to get the item to you as advertised, if not it is his problem. It doesn’t matter how it gets to you, but it has to be in the condition as advertised.
Same goes for the post office. Why should I have to pay them for insurance to make sure they ship my package correctly? Jerry
FedEx paid you off, based on the valuation quoted and the insurance premium paid, even though you didn’t have a receipt showing that you’d paid somebody that much for the thing. That is precisely the kind of claim UPS absolutely refused to pay on a loss suffered by a family member of mine. He had declared a high valuation and paid the premium. The carrier did not deny that the destruction occurred while in its hands (no argument there), but used some strange defense that the destroyed items had no more than a nominal intrinsic value, though they were expensive to replace. (The declared valuation was fair.) My relative even got some serious guidance from a retired UPS manager friend, but all to no avail.
I’d always held UPS in high regard, but he got really shabby treatment. He also got all the motivation he needed to become an ex-customer of UPS. His business became (except where absolutely necessary) an exclusively FedEx shipper.
I am of the opinion that people should only insure themselves against expenses which they could not afford to cover themselves, which means medical, liability, auto, and homeowners (Life insurance is another issue). These are areas that could wipe a person out financially if they aren’t insured. Insuring yourself against small losses does not make sense in the long run. In most cases, the insurance will go unused and the money you save in the long run will more than pay for the few instances in which something gets lost, stolen, or damged. This is the same reason I never buy extended warranties. I’ve saved so much money over the years by not buying these warranties that I can pay to replace any lemon appliance I might buy in the future and still be way ahead.
There are reasons companies offer extended warranties and insurance. They are money makers. The companies understand the risk/reward nature of these programs and know they come out ahead after thousands of these transactions even if occasionally they do have to pay out. If they are making money on these things, someone is losing money and that someone is the consumer who buys into these programs.
Regardless of whether you have to go through a hassle like the one described above, forgo the insurance and accept the fact you might occasionally have to eat the cost of replacing a damaged item. Over time, you will come out ahead of the game.
USPS gets my vote for the worst. Something purchased on Ebay can be insured “for what you payed” and no more. Lets say you find a brass N&W caboose and win it for a very low bid of $50.00. It gets damaged. USPS wants a copy of the Ebay auction with item number. They will give you the $50.00 and no more. They will also take the item. The cabbose may have a value of $150.00 but all you get is the amount of the winning bid. I walked away from a claim because they insisted on keeping the item and I spent a lot of time finding that particular item for a great price.
I can tell you that in the case of Model-Trains-Video.com, if a video arrives damaged or never shows up, we just ship it again, no questions asked. If someone got an extra video somewhere along the way, then hey, they’ll probably give it to a friend and I consider that advertising – so no loss!
Fortunately, there’s a lot of mom-and-pop businesses in the model railroading industry who feel as I do – the customer comes first, period.
Insurance on a low-cost item (under $200) is probably not worth it compared to the effort to collect on the claim. I also don’t get extended warranties on most items because they’re just asking me “do you want to pay us extra because we just sold you junk that’s going to break?”
I have delt with Weaver for several years, calls go answered or routed where they need to go, product is most always in stock, and tech servrice, (even on a kitbashing project!) is excelent!
( I was 'bashing a Weaver drive under a USH brass GP-35. Greg, the tech guy helped me figure out what parts I needed on the phone. For a “not all together” Weaver product!)