Hobby shops and future

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Often I see posts about local hobby shops closing for one reason or another, and this is worrisome for me as it should be for all. Todays trends towards hobby purchases have changed drastically, mostly favoring on line buying. Many fine shops have joined the 21st century and do business through their sites, but then again, many don’t. The major purchases such as locos and electronics are most definitely made on line and through eBay. This leaves many shops just selling staples…you know the stuff that is essential to build a model railroad like spikes, track, paint, glue, etc. for the bulk of their business. I doubt seriously that these staples will be found on line, but hobby shops are and always have been the source of these items. They don’t turn much of a profit, but they are carried more as a service hoping to gain loyality. The major purchases could be the difference between survial and failure for these shops. Price seems to be the driving force and we are mostly driven to find the lowest possible price…and understandly so. Some have said that if the shops can’t make it, it’s their own fault, and there is much truth to that, but lets look a bit into the future.

I’m the co-founder of the Great Scale Model Train Show in Timonium, MD, and during the 26 years of the show, I’ve seen many changes…mainly the higher age of our attendees and fewer numbers. The hobby still is strong, but besides the train shows and club open houses, where are new folks going to find out about our hobby? On line train purchases seem to appeal to those who are searching for a particular item and for the best price. One has to see model trains in the flesh to become inspired and have one on one contact with the seller to answer the many inevitable questions.

My best advice is to find a fine shop and support it as much as possible, as in essence this shop is supporting the hobby for you. I’m afraid once their numbers really dwindle, so will the h

2

There has been a lot about this issue and I guess the market ultimately decides. With communication and media like it is today there are multiple forms of inpsiration and you don’t have to see it in the flesh. The videos on you-tube, magazines, books like your own all inspire me to try for better results.

I buy from LHS and internet - I don’t think we can be labelled as one type of buyer or another. We use multiple forms of shopping.

The big issue is the disparity in prices that seem to be ever widening between on-line and local. I’ve recently purchased sound decoders over the internet at well under half the price of the LHS.

In truth when the LHS started adding 50 cents to the price of my regular magazine I decided that this was a step too far and ultimately short sighted. Yes I want to support local traders but in return don’t insult me if you want my custom.

3

Yes, loyalty & price seem to always be at odds. I wouldn’t mind paying 10%-12% more at the local Hobby shop. The reality is that our only area train shop charges list price & I can save $100 on a spectrum loco from a number of mail order shops. What price loyalty? I do buy most of my new released rolling stock at the LHS because even if the % of markup is high, the dollar amount isn’t that much.

Judging from the size of your layout I can see why the LHS treats you well. We owners of much smaller layouts don’t create the volume that you do, so we don’t get that special service.I am very sad to see the LHS closing. As a kid every town had a hobby shop with various amounts of trains. With the price of gasoline & possibly the saving of sales tax if you order out of state plus the discount at mail order dealers, I see a dim future for hobby or train shops.

4

LHSs have a lot of competition, not only from online shops but from other sources. Some large discount arts and craft stores are starting to carry some model railroading supplies. I buy many of my supplies such as paint, glue, wood, styrene etc both online and at other alternate places rather than go to the understocked MSRP LHSs in this area. Sorry, I will not pay MSRP or buy expensive dedicated hobby supplies when there are alternatives.

5

Jerryl

Actually the shop in Gettysburg just does business that way. I’m far from his best or his largest customer. I’ve done business with this shop when I had a much smaller train set…still the same fine service!

It could be as in many cases, things are changing. Having owned a fairly large hobby shop years ago, I could have a different insight. I also realize that nessessity is the mother of invention. Trends do change and the LHS must adjust, or sink…or could start a new trend!!

HZ

6

At least Gilbert’s is still in business. There’s a nasty rumour going around (or maybe it isn’t a rumour) that the Model Railroad Shop in Dunellen NJ is going to close up. That’s the one that’s supposed to be the oldest train shop around. That would be a shame, as there isn’t anything close to me in the Trenton area except for maybe the shop in Somerville. DK&B in Hightstown closed up a couple of years back, although Keith was going to go the internet only route for a while, but it even looks like that has gone bye-bye.

PS: Looks like the email notification of reply posts has still not been fixed.

7

It’s not just the hobby retail industry that is changing, though. It is all retail. Life is all about change. If the hobby has merits it will survive. There are certainly a lot of “newbies” on this forum! That is a good sign.

Besides, online shopping had been great for modelers in small towns and rural areas. Don’t forget that.

8

Yeah, it’s a modern day version of the old Sears catalog. Sears would provide virtually anything your heart desired short of perishable items. At one point, you could even order a kit for a house which you could either build yourself or hire the work out. Presumably, those who had their kit houses built for them were laughed at for “Dreaming, Planning and Buying”.

Andre

9

Hi Gang

I posted a couple days ago about a local shop (1 hour drive from me) closeing its store but keeping the online part open. I have bought 99% of my DCC products from them. Mostly online and at shows when they set up. My LHS is just a couple blocks from work and like Howard had put it, Staples are the norm. They are freindly and I get a discount for beeing in a local club. Without the LHS I would not have modules for the shows or the colection of freight cars and locos I have. They stay in buiseness because they are a mullty hobby shop. They have RC cars,Boats,Planes, model rockets, doll house, Z to G MR. Plus any hobby you can think of. They also have a train club on the top floor thats N to G layouts. They are thinking of taking the DCC plunge but thats a ways off.

Pete

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I’ve even seen HO laser cut kits for some of those mailorder houses! I forget who makes them right now.

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This help? http://www.muddycreekrr.com/laserkits.htm

Branchline also offers some from Sears and Aladdin: http://www.jaystrains.com/HO-HOn3/Structures/hostr4.htm (Page down, there are several)

Andre

12

Howard:

I traveled all the way From Charlotte, NC to attend that show in Timonium last Saturday.

My compliments. It’s a great show. When I told people how great it was, they all told me that it used to be much bigger. I have trouble picturing that. It’s pretty big now. I only spent $350 at it, but I have several business cards from vendors that I WILL be contacting in the future.

I am fortunate. My local hobby shop is within walking distance of my house. (Less than a mile.)

13

I always try my LHS first, and they always let me know the result. There’s only been a few things I’ve ordered online or mail-order (remember that?). If they tell me a manufacturer gave them a hard time I just won’t buy the thing. Example: I want to buy 1 engine and the LHS has to order 12 or 20 or some huge dollar amount minimum, or send money in advance. Don’t blame people who buy on the internet for the decline of the LHS, that would be the new folks getting into the hobby buying trains like they buy everything else. Looking for the best deal. The suppliers and wholesalers are the biggest problem, they have been selling direct for years, and don’t ask us to buy 12 engines or $5,000 just to do business with them.

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14

I see model railroading becoming more or less a largely historical hobby just like the popular hobby of WWII model airplanes.

Even though the prototype doesn’t exist now except as the rare operational plane at air shows, it’s still a popular hobby.

ITS ALL ABOUT THE MEDIA IN THE 21ST CENTURY

I think we underestimate the power of the media in the lives of our children and grandchildren.

They see WWII aircraft in movies, in computer games, on the internet, and learn about them in history class at school, etc. Same story with trains.

Trains show up in many movies on TV and at the theater, not to mention the popular train centric Thomas TV series and the recent Polar Express movie, and the older Back to the Future part III. I know when I have gone to the WGH shows, they have been packed to the walls with parents and children clammoring for anything Thomas.

And I am aware of several railroad excursion lines who have run Polar Express excursions during the holidays to sold out crowds of parents and kids. All those kids are being exposed to the fascination of railroading, and some will grow up and go looking for a train-related hobby … and notice, it was not a prototype that generated all this interest – but the media!

Add to all this the fact that overseas, high speed rail service is taking on the airlines with a vengeance. The Chunnel train, for example, now books more passenger miles between London and France than the airlines. The wild success of high speed rail service overseas is getting the US to look seriously at high-tech high speed rail transport here domestically.

DOES MODEL RAILROADING HAVE A FUTURE IN THE 21ST CENTURY?

I see many reasons that model railroading could still be something children routinely experience and find fascinating well into the 21st century. I don’t expect model trains to ever regain the fad toy status they had among t

15

I owned a vitamin store. It was supported by my mail order/Internet Business but when I sold it in 2000, the store could not hold it’s own against Walmart. I lowered my prices to the point that my profit margin was a break even, bur people were content to buy cheap products at lower prices.

I could not sell quality and compete with Walmart.

I closed the store for good last year. IT was not a matter of service because I knew more about supplements and could direct people to supplements that would make a difference. But price was always a factor for people and I could sustain my low prices.

The world is a different place than it was. We have two choices, adapt or complain.

16

I’ve also been preaching buy from your LHS or lose, but often I don’t heed my own words. Especially for the big ticket items that shops need to survive. It’s a matter of money of course - if I didn’t buy items online, then I would never have been able to buy them at the LHS. The LHS is losing my business I guess, but since I couldn’t pay their prices I would not have bought from them.

Most of my recent purchases have been On30 equipment. My LHS and the next one 100 miles away do not carry On30. One in a farther away city does, and I always drop in when I’m visiting. A few years ago I really wanted one of the Bachmann On30 Shays; I believe the U.S. list price was around $275.00. This shop had one, for $375.00 Canadian. Adding in our 14& tax (at the time), the model would have cost me over $400.00. No way would I or could I pay that much! The Shays were available online from U.S. shops for around $125.00. With the extra shipping charges to Canada, and the tax, I could have gotten the Shay for $200.00 delivered. Half the LHS price.

So my support for the LHS only goes so far!

17

The real problem is this.

  1. online shops discount as high as 30% off the list. Usually working on 10% to 22% of the list less freight costs and other costs for orders.

  2. how much paint, detail parts and other little things does it take in just one day to break even on daily operating costs for a LHS.

  3. customers assume you will order it in for them, without giving a deposit. My local dealer told me if you want a product you have 30 days from the annoucement, then you run the risk that I can’t get the product.

  4. Hobby shops and staff do not have the same learning curve to grasp this new age technlgy especially DCC, which is the key driver to revenue for anyone now adays. My LHS, owners son who’s 22 and who writes computer code grasps the high tech products better than the father. So the father uses the son for customer support and such.

  5. The used market is showing right now to have more value than the new market. With costs increasing for new runs, some people are looking for 2nd hand locos of past runs for layouts.

Bottom line is this, all consumers are price sensitive on all products. Remember do you feel more comforable recieving support in person or over the phone with someone trying to help you fix the problem.

With everything in life comes change, if people accept change good things will happen, if they refuse well i hope they have a life jacket to save them.

CASO

18

I was at a LHS that is small but ih ave still done business with them. I walked into buy some intermountain 33’ wheels and we were talking about future releases of engine. He told me that he was no longer going to pre-order any BLI engines due to issues with ordering. He says that FDT will sell and release before most distributors will even get them in stock. He says they like to sell what they can themselves then dump the left overs on to the distrubutors than of course the LHS. I can see the LHS are getting the pinch from their distributors. I do not purchase many engines form the LHS but somtimes I will. One thing he told me was that the blue line duplex coming out is not scheduled to arrive at his distributors until the end of the month. Though FDT and Walthers show it available. That is not cool to do business this way. kinda greedy to choose who gets to sell it first.

19

I think if there is any real problem looming it is Preorder Syndrome.

The trend towards products being announced but with release dates that are as shaky as a forced-retirement bomb disposal expert trying to solder a Z scale decoder while riding a bus over a PA highway risks putting folks on both sides of the cash register (or online shopping cart) off of the hobby altogether.

I could spend my whole day just trying to keep track of these ever shifting dates!

20

lhs lost my interest when they went ready to run. i want to build my cars. i want reasonable costs on groups of cars.

on line is a chance, will it come broke? will it be up to quality. i am a spur of the moment buyer if i see something i like, color ,road, design. i buy

lhs for trains only is long gone. so they have to divest to survive

the hobby wont die but it will need life support cause when it comes down to eating corn or using it for fuel for electricty the motor of the world will slow down