How close can you get to the tracks beefore your are considered on railroad property? Is their like minimum foot distance?
Unless at a grade crossing, 50’ from the outside rail is typically considered railroad property.
I’m not in my area of expertise, so I might not have this quite right:
Right-of-way widths vary wildly from 40’ to 400’, and in some places is much wider. There’s lots and lots of 200’ and 400’ right-of-way out there. If there is a fence, No Trespassing sign, or obvious break in land-use patterns, that probably denotes the line where the right-of-way begins and someone else’s property ends. Public crossings as long as you are on the roadway surface or sidewalk are covered by a license between the government owner of the roadway and the railway, and it’s legal to stand there. Private crossings, of which there are many, are a license between the landowner and the railway, and unless you are covered by that license because you are the landowner, or his authorized agent, you’re trespassing.
RWM
If you are there without the railroad’s knowledge and permission, you are trespassing.
There are plenty of places where public roads cross railroad rights of way where the roadway agency neither owns the land underneath or holds an easement. (right by contract/ license/permit only)… there are places as well where the shoe is on the other foot.
There are several places in SE Colorado where the R/W is miles wide. (diningcar knows it well, out by Prowers-Caddoa-Hilton)
Assuming a railroad R/W is always a fixed width is a really bad move. (Local GIS people and county assessor mappers are forever screwing up)
RWM: a piece of a well known railroad wye in Denver (Ex C&S - Now UP) got totally screwed-up (by BN/Glacier Park) in a land swap and that R/W line does not even clear the ties. (can you say implied ingress & egress?prescriptive easement?)
RWM is correct. The railroad’s property line is wherever it is. Do not assume it is any particular value for legal purposes.
I used to go to a fair number of train wrecks. I do not get closer than 50 feet from a passing train if I can avoid it. I can not outrun flying freight cars. My perception is that 95% of the time flying freight cars will not go farther than 50 feet. Passenger cars could go about 100 feet, but that is not my area of expertise.
Mac
I think it depends on the circumstances. At the viewing platform middle of the “Folkston (GA) Funnel” it’s probably a good hundred feet one side to the other, from a parallel road to the (ankle-high) chain across the grass across the two tracks across the grass, etc. I’ve seen people step inside either of those chains only a time or two, and never when the town cop was patrolling. No warning signs about potential illegality, but people seem to respect the symbolism of the chain, though it’s quite easy to step over.
Given the myraid variables in ROWs, the safe course would be to stay on property that is, by all appearances, open to public access - sidewalks, parks, parking lots, etc. That doesn’t mean that if there’s no fence you can go there, though.
Rather it means that places like sidewalks, parking lots, etc will generally be safe. Of course, you need to make sure you’re not trespassing on another owner’s property, too. Even though the parking lot of the grocery store is accessible to the public, it’s also intended for the use of that store’s patrons, not railfans intent on taking pictures. If it doesn’t appear that you’re going to interfere with their patrons, seeking out the manager might be a good idea. Never know. He might be a fan himself!
You might need to watch for loitering laws as well. Some places are fussier about that than others, particularly if they’ve had problems in that respect.
On the other hand, sitting in the parking lot of a place like Carousel Mall in Syracuse (right next to the CSX Chicago Line) for a while probably won’t attract any attention, unless you make yourself noticable.
Bottom line - if it looks like you probably shouldn’t be there - you probably shouldn’t be there. If you are challenged, consider the circumstances. If things seem reasonable, some gentle discourse will be to your advantage. If things don’t seem to be reasonable, pack up and move on. It’s not worth the hassle.
from prior post: “Bottom line - if it looks like you probably shouldn’t be there - you probably shouldn’t be there. If you are challenged, consider the circumstances. If things seem reasonable, some gentle discourse will be to your advantage. If things don’t seem to be reasonable, pack up and move on. It’s not worth the hassle.”
I have to agree. The cops have guns and arrest privileges and the person in this hypothetical doesn’t. If you KNOW you are dead right don’t argue the issue – just leave. “He who fights and runs away will live to fight another day” – if you are still riled up about it you can always write a polite but pointed letter or e-mail to the cop’s boss (Sgt./mall security/whomever). I don’t suffer gladly having my civil rights violated, but sometimes we just have to bow to the inevitable. - a.s.
I’ve seen areas here in SE Arizona where a fence line is as much as 200 feet from the railroad tracks, and I have been questioned by county sheriff’s deputies a couple of times when I thought I was well off of railroad property because train crews apparently called them out.
Where I grew up in Richfield MN on the old MNS “High Line” (as featured in some track planning articles under current operator Progressive Rail) there were streets on each side of the tracks, which ran on a narrow strip maybe 15-20’ wide. There were a few signs by the curb that said “No Trespassing - Railroad Property” so I guess as long as you were on the street you were fine, which meant you could get quite close.
As noted, in other areas it could be much larger of course, like along a mainline etc. I know one local suburb built a large flower garden between their city hall and the adjoining railroad track…and were quite put off when the railroad sprayed their track (and the flower garden) with plant killer !! But the RR rightly pointed out that at that point their property went into and beyond the area where the city had put the garden.
You could always move to Salem, Oregon. As noted in the thread with photos, we have right downtown many blocks of a very narrow ROW. This UP mainline is only 7ft from from the nice benched walkway.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/144999/1609366.aspx#1609366
Thanks, I live on Norfolk Southern’s Pittsburgh Line and I take a lot of photos on the side of the track and I just wondered If there was a set distance away from the tracks. I though it was simply stay off the track and behind the yellow gates.
That’s a great start. You might still be on RR property on the “right” side of the gates, but at least you haven’t passed the barrier, so it’s not likely you’d get hassled.
In the 1950’s the New York Central allowed North Girard (what is now Lake City), PA to pave part of the railroad property adjacent to the main street through town for business patron parking. A local independent trucker started parking his big rig on that strip of asphalt. When word got back to the railroad they told the town to stop the practice or the railroad would come back and tear up the parking area and fence it off!!! The strip itself was deep enough to allow diagonal parking and there was still about 40 or 50 yards to the actual track bed. Needless to say the trucker found another place to park his rig out of sight of the RR big wigs!!
I would first worry about being a safe distance away before a legal distance.
When i was a young lad and my dad used to take me trackside to watch trains go by i stood at least the railway track behind me.what the current regulations or law is this i do not know but best keep a good distance for safty sake.
To the railroads and police departments across the country; being a railfan is legal. That does not mean that one can tresspass on private property. One of the most popular places to watch trains in the Twin Cities is University and 27 TH street in Northeast Minneapolis. It happens to be on private property and there seems to be a clear understanding of the boundaries. I have noticed over the years that you can watch and photograph trains as long as you don’t go on the tracks.Even when CP was on strike a few years back nobody got hassled. The only time I remember a problem was when a father son team of railfan nerds wandered out on the tracks to get their shot. A railroad bull saw them on the tracks and ordered them off and gave them a good butt chewing too, as he should. This also meant that a beautiful train watching afternoon was over for the rest of us. A Minneapolis Police squad showed up and said to clear out. I do not know where exactly the BNSF right of way ends but someone called the cops.Railfans have for years watched trains here and have for the most part kept the area tidy. We would like to preserve that for the next generation of fans.
It varies. Usually, just try to stay a safe distance from the action, and check for signs, and people usually leave you alone (you’re likely legal anyhow). Now if a boss is on site, and you’re even an inch over the invisible line, you’ll find out about it. Just use sense, and if you’re unsure, you can ask an employee if one’s nearby and not busy.
Al: If I’m not mistaken I believe there is a sign on the platform asking folks to stay on the right side of the chains; not sure how many actually read it though. I have seen a few that have gotten stupid from tme to time and either gotten too close or not kept their kids away from the tracks, and I have gently reminded them that we need not try CSX’s patience and risk ending their good will and ruining things for the 99.9% that respect the boundries.
Mac: Nevermind the flying freight cars; I’m sure a chunk of coal leaving a the top of a hopper at 50mph or an errant banding strap hanging out the door of a boxcar would be enough to ruin your day, LOL [B)]
Chuck
A couple of years ago we were boarding passengers for a Polar Express trip at Utica Union Station when an eastbound CSX manifest went by on track 2, the southernmost track there. We’re on the north side of track 1.
About 10 cars from the marker we noticed a large chain hanging off the north side of a flat car, flailing wildly. We called CSX, who presumably dealt with it.
Had that train been on Track 1, it would have endangered anyone on that platform who was within a few feet of the track.
Station
Platform
Track 2
Track 1
Platform
Our platform
North.