I was wondering something today how soon do amtrak trains have to start blowing their horns since they move so fast down the tracks. Like most times when I see the amtrak train that runs between milwaukee and chicago. That train travels at or about 79 mph. So how soon before any rail crossing do the trains have to start blowing before they reach the crossing. Because there have been times that I’ll hear an amtrak train approaching the crossing as he is blowing and as he crosses he is still blowing so it. Seems to me that they don’t start soon enough to get in all of the horn blasts as required by the FRA. Thanks for an responses to this topic.
Many lines have a whistle sign posted on approach to a grade crossing that I assume is at a good enough distance no matter the speed. I do know that the last horn blast is supposed to carry through til the lead engine is on the crossing.
Yes. What are called “whistle posts”, a post in the ground usually with a “w” on it facing the oncoming rail traffic, are placed an appropriate distance before the grade crossing at large. Engineers are also responsible for knowing thier territory, timetable, landmarks, etc. and applicable rules so should know his train, his locomotive, his speed, his location, grade crossing locations, and the rules.
Lessee if I can remember the rule off the top of my head-
Not less than 15 seconds or more than 20 seconds before entering the crossing, nor more than 1/4 mile from the crossing.
Generally the whistle posts are set so they’re at the appropriate distance for that to happen at track speed.
…Which seems to mean, Amtrak would have to blow before freight trains traveling slower if that in fact is the case. When traveling 79 mph a train approaches the crossing rather quick. Sounds like the engineer has to “time” his “whistle blowing” to make it come out right.
Larry, You bring up a very important but often overlooked point in these types of discussions. It is very easy to think “how soon should they blow” without even considering “how soon is too soon.” I take it the “not before XXX seconds” rule is in place to prevent the train from blowing while they are still too far away from the crossing which could result in the train horn not being audible due to the greater distance, and also giving drivers the thought that when they hear a whistle they still have ample time to beat the train across. Jamie
the new rule is no less than 15 sec and no more than 20 sec and the last blow is carried thru the crossing. at speeds above 45 mph. at speeds below 45 mph the engineer is to use good judgment in regards to the 15-20 sec rule .
which means if the train is running 15 mph you would not start blowing at the whistle board 1/4 mile away and be in the limits of the rule. the rule use to be that you blow and there was no limit to the space /time between blows but now its 15-20 sec total time from when you started blowing for the crossing to whe your done at that crossing. and the whistle board is just a means to let you know there is a crossing there. on some crossing its is 15 seconds before you get there but at some it is not. its a guide now not a place to start at.
Blow soon enough but also the last long blast is theoretically at or on the crossing itself. that’s why some guys used to hold that last blast…doing it as he was almost on the crossing until the locomotive cleared.
I know taking the Builder across Wisconsin a few years ago, there were places where it seems like the engineer had to blow the horn continously; he’d just finish one grade crossing signal and have to start on the next one, doing maybe three crossings a minute!
Wabash - thanks for the confirmation.
wjstix - If you watch the whistle boards, you will sometimes see something like W MX on one sign. That indicates that there are multiple crossings, and yes it’ll be pretty much a constant series of blasts. I know of a small village with around six crossings, several very close to each other. Due to a sharp curve, track speed is slow. Most of the engineers show a bit of restraint on Sunday morning - they could just about hang a weight on the whistle as they pass through town…
There has been a lot of “Horn Blowing” going on around the forums lately and the tone at times seems to me to be that some people out there think that the mere sound of a horn, how long it is blown or how far away it starts to be blown, is actually going to stop someone from putting themselves and others in harms way.
So, just to throw some fuel on the fire, let me ask you all this;
Why are horns needed to blown at a protected gate crossing in the first place?
Seems to me that if the gates come down, you stop until the train passes. Simple as that. If you decide to go around the gates, why would you think that a horn blowing would do any good? The gates obviously didn’t stop you, why would the sound waves from a horn change your mindset?
So why is there OPERATION LIFESAVER?
It could be argued that the horn is superflous, except at crossings with no active protection, and even more so that the bell is superflous, yet it is run for every crossing (I think some locomotives turn it on automatically when the horn is first sounded).
Operation Lifesaver is great, too.
But as long as there are people who feel it their duty to beat the train, then every method that can be used to attempt to dissuade them should be used.
Of course, there are those who would take the mindset that if the first sounding of the horn is 15-20 seconds before the train reaches the crossing, then they have 15-20 seconds to get acrosss the tracks before the train gets there, even if the gates are down…
…For crossings with gates and automatic flashing warning lights…Install center barriers on the street / highway back a distance appropriate and stop {some % of those who would “drive around”…That percentage will not be stopped by anything {bells or horns}, except by the train…
Center barriers are one of the options when a quiet zone is established. There are several grade crossings in south Elmhurst on the CN/IC Iowa line that have them.
One of the new programs being used around the country are “quiet zones” whereby trains do not blow the crossing warning but rather a horn is sound at the crossing directed only to traffic directions. Communities have to petition for the limited time permission to have a quiet zone at the moment and have to find a way of paying for the installation. It relieves the engineer from having to blow for a crossing and wake up the neighborhood or whole town and puts the onus on the vehicle drivers to obey. Still I believe an engineer can blow if a motorist ignores the gates, lights, and horns at the quiet zone crossing.
It all really is, and always has been, in the hands of the motorist in my estimation. The driving laws of all states are the same in this regard and the law of physics in stopping a train of any size and at any speed means motorists should stop. But they don’t. I know of an instance in PA where one night a crossing was occupied by a train, gates down, lights on, train crew on the ground with lights, a line of cars stopped and legally waiting for train to clear; then a drunk went around the stopped cars, around the gates, and under the train ripping the roof off the car. He survived with no injuries and won the law suit, too! So go figure.
On another forum a while ago I put forth this idea: red lazer lights throwing a wall of light across a crossing completely blocking it… like having to drive into or through an object if you tried to proceed.
Traffic lights would seem to be a cost effective solution.
But traffic lights don’t work…neither do gates for that matter: half gates are circumvented, full gates get smashed, lights are just lights. If traffic lights were the solution it would have worked by now. But I wonder if a ten foot wall or curtain of red lazer light the width of the crossing would be an answer?
They don’t work? Do people in your area drive through them?
Yes. And they do everywhere, everybody tries to beat a yellow light. Especially at railroad crossings. Sure the majority do stop at regular road intersection lights, nobody is debating or discussing that here. We are talking railroad crossings where even the most restictive lights and gates have not eliminated driving onto the tracks in front of a moving train or trains, or even into the side of a train occupying a crossing. Double track territory with only lights or with half gates are where drivers don’t wait for gates to go up or lights to go out.