Hello everyone, who do you have in the Super Bowl ??? I have my trains running with a adult beverage in hand relaxing, tomorrow, that’s my day, I have a question , its about helixes, my layout is a Nscale two level layout in the Cascade mountains of Oregon, I’m running mdern era trains, what I’m using now is a woodland scenic incline as my grade from the first level to the next, the problem is that the I really don’t have the height I would like between each decks, sorry for the long winded question, LOL" can someone tell me what goes into planning for a helix, who makes the best helix kits, and can I see some pictures of your helix? Thanks for any infomation that would help!!! Take Care[8D] Trainsrme1
Da Bears!
Oh wait, my bad.
The Chiefs!
TracksideScenery.com sell helix kits made out of Gatorboard. If cost is an issue, you could make one out of laminated Luann.
I did the Trackside Scenry helix.
To me a helix is a waste of space. In HO scale it takes up at least nine square feet and you wind up with is a lot of empty space in the middle. Might I suggest that you think about what you could do with the space. Also what is the grade between the lower and upper levels. Are you running DC or DCC which makes a difference, since you are running modeern era, DCC allows you have DPU locomotives allowing you to run your trains up steeper grades.
My layout is running DCC and the grade between levels is 2%, now since I’m usuing at the time woodland scenics inclines, they are about 2%
I’m not a real big fan of the “tall” helix, but please tell me how you can build one in 9 sq ft? - 18" radius? That’s crazy. That requires a grade of 3.6% plus the resistance of such a sharp curve puts you at over 4% effective grade.
Great if you like 4 car trains.
Any really useful HO helix should be built at 32" radius, 36" radius is better.
That requires 36 sq ft.
BUT, if you plan it right you build scenery on top of the helix, so the space is not lost.
I have designed and help buid several such layouts for friends over the years.
My new layout will have two “single turn” helixes just to create more of an illusion of distance as the mainline passes thru a backdrop from one scene to another.
They take up zero space since they are under the scenery.
Look closely at the track plan on the two peninsulas.
Of course I have no idea how much space the OP has or what kind of plan he has in mind.
Sheldon
Superbowl?
Atlantic Central you are correct about the space needed. The area inside of the helix is dead space not usable for anything unless you can come up with some ideas for the use of the space.
Volcano crater, LOL.
I was joking.
Or, maybe it was just wishful thinking.
Rich
I have operated on two layouts that had helixes (or is that helices?). One involved situation where two rooms at two rather significantly different floor levels was involved and a helix was essential. The other was the more traditional two deck layout but the helix was in a corner that was unobtrusive and the layout owner had the idea of locating his dispatcher in the center of the helix! It worked until his favorite dispatcher just got too old to crawl into it. Both layouts were big ones that filled the respective owners’ basements.
The other helix was topped with a farm scene that had no trains whatever on it. It was like the top of a top hat. It was a very effective scene but at 6’8" tall I was probably the only operator who truly could see and appreciate it!
I have also visited many layouts that had a helix. The amount of space they take up seems to matter less when the overall layout is really large and the layout design is able to shove it into a corner.
While a helix does indeed take up space, the alternative (a steady grade through a great length of layout) comes at its own costs in terms of local switching, realistic operations, and maximizing the usable layout space on BOTH levels. And if you level out the track at each small town, now you are introducing even larger grades for the actual parts that rise.
From an operator’s perspective and many others have expressed the same reaction, if the track inside the helix is totally hidden you tend to gradually up the speed of your train because you are afraid it might have stalled, with the sometimes hilarious result that trains shoot out of the helix at Acela speeds! And needless to say, while ALL your track should be “bulletproof” and trouble-free, a helix really ups the ante on that.
The late Jim Hediger told a funny story about the first helix he ever built, with the help of modeler friend Dic
My layout is N Scale, and the helix is three-and-a-half turns with a 2% grade and 28.25" radius (approx 52" radius for HO equivalent). Here is a sequence of sketches and photos to show the design and construction:
Very nicely constructed.
Did you have a formula to determine the length and width of the segments, and the angle between?
MR recently had a construction article for a helix with a formula, but there were some errors that made it hard (for me) to follow.
Already answered. Scenery.
There was no single all-encompassing formula used to design or fabricate my helix. There was some (of what I consider to be) basic math used to determine the sizes and angles of a few pieces, such as how to lay out 12 holes at even intervals around the perimeter of a double-rectangled square base, but those calculations were done on an ‘as-needed’ basis.
My N scale single track helix can be used ‘as-is’ for an HO scale single track helix. The 28.25" radius is a little tight for HO, but I have seen many that are tighter. The 2.75 deck clearance (and the subsequent 2.50" railhead clearance) is also a little tight, but doable. Some minor fudging of the numbers can modify it to accomodate a larger radius or higher clearances or for double trackage.
Regarding the math . . . If anyone needs help for their unique situation, they can post whatever information or criteria they have on a new thread and I’ll be happy to help out. No big deal. That is to say, no big deal if it is possible. If it is impossible (which many situations are), then maybe it might be a big deal
I built a two track helix, custom made for my dimensions as I added a two track main acround the top so I could have non-stop running so I can just see trains running when I’m not having an operating session.
Took me 5 months of nights, a few hours each night as work limited my time.
The instructions and video the company made for me was very helpful…
Neal
I have a combination of a nolix, where the track gains altitude through out the course of the mainline, and a helix at the end to bring the track back down to staging for continuous running. The max grade is 1.8% coming out of staging and the rest of grades or 1.5% or less. Basic track plan.
Benchwork to support the helix.
Helix under construction:
Code 100 Atlas flex attatched with tiny screws ordered from the UK
Soldered drops to every other joint, every joint soldered.
Risers initially installed on both sides of each deck joint:
Added a second set halfway between existing risers to make helilx solid.
Added a yard lead wrapping around the outside of the helix.
I tried clicking on your photos to get a closer look, but I got a 404 message and Imgur says you don’t exist.
Do you have dimensions and sizes, slopes, etc for your helix? Is it a store-bought kit?
Thanks.
Robert
The concerns are usually:
- The amount of floor space the helix consumes, and by extension how to position it
- The amount of time a train spends in the helix. I read something today, (possibly quoting Jim Hediger?) that stated trains were in the helix for seven minutes. amd operators would get nervous and keep increasing the speed.