I am just getting back in to model railroading after being out of it for almost 5 years, I know, thats a long dry spell. Anyway, I am working on building a new layout here soon based off the Norfolk & Western in Virginia. Now, Unlike a lot of the layouts I have seen on the N&W, I want to work on the part of the line around the Farmville, Richmond to Norfolk areas. I know, Not the norm, but, I am from the Petersburg area of the state and so is my family thats why I picked it.
What I am looking for is any tips, information and anything else that anyone can offer me. I will be doing this in N scale, but, I am still in the planing stage. What I am realy looking for is a idea on what towns the N&W stoped in and were the line use to go.
Since you are focused on a specific railroad and location, try www.nwhs.org for information. Now is the time to start collecting photos, books, and other related items. I’ve spent hours at train shows going through slide collections, looking for specific shots from the region and time frame I’m modelling.
Have you made a pilgrimage to Roanoke for inspiration?
well, I have a fair number books and the like that has some information on the N&W in them, but, the one thing I have yet to find is a map or somthing that tells me the path of the lines tracks, or even a station list from around Norfolk area to the Roanoke area.
As for a pilgrimage to Roanoke, I would love to, but, I live almost 6 hours from there. but, I am thinking about it for maybe a over night trip later on this year.
Hello and welcome to the forum. One good source of information would be your local library. There are several books available about the N&W which would have the information you seek. There is also a small museum at Norfolk Southern’s headquarters in downtown Norfolk, about two hours from Petersburg. If you go via route 460, you will parallel the N&W line most of the way. You could also stop by the Suffolk Visitors Center and see the HO scale layout on display there.
What era? Post Virginian merger time could be a fascinating area and period as you could also run the Virginian Alleghenys and FM diesels. Before that the N&W was partially owned by the PRR and PRR diesels were not uncommon visitors.
I am shooting for around 1950 to about 1955 or there about. I am planing on modeling the area in and around the Richmond Va area. My family is from places around petersburg, farmville, southside and the like. That is why I want to stay with towns and areas I know.
I guess that depends on how you want to look at it. They may have owned some stock, but that was it. Hell, the N&W was paying the PRR’s bills! Now look who owns who![(-D]
Look at the difference in the motive power pre-diesel. I don’t see any PRR influence there!
So what. There may as well be a national locomotive pool the way foreign units show up everywhere these days.
Obviously you dislike the PRR. My comments were directed to an inidvidual who may want to add some diesels to a steam railroad and be able to justify them. And no the PRR GP9s were not in national pool service. They were supplied to help the N&W out of a power crunch.
The scheduled station stop list from the 1967 Official Guide lists the following (east to west order): Suffolk; Windsor; Wakefield; Waverly; Petersburg (Fort Lee); Blackstone (Camp Pickett); Crewe (a division point); Burkeville; Farmville; Pamplin; Appomattox; Lynchburg. Smaller towns along the route include Zuni & Ivor down in the dismal swamp area, the delightful town name of “Disputanta” just east of Petersburg (the RR President and his wife couldn’t agree on a name), Ford, Willson, Wellville, and Nottoway.
I have a 1953 N&W timetable that shows the Powhatan Arrow stopping in Suffolk, Petersburg, Blackstone, Crewe, Farmville, and Lynchburg. The Pocahontas doesn’t list a stop at Crewe. For the Cavalier, it also had a station stop in Burkeville.
You have selected a good time, as 2-6-6-4 Class A’s would be prevalent. "A"s, “K” class 4-8-2s and "J"s lasted until about 1958. The slower “Y” class were used on coal drags. The Z-1 2-6-6-2’s were also assigned to coal drags through this area. A 1955 listing in Richard Prince’s N&W book lists the following tonnage ratings Norfolk to Crewe: Y-6, 3900 ; A, 3900 ; K1, 2500 .
There was engine servicing and crew changes at Crewe, which was/is a generally flat and straight-line yard. The station at Appomattox is still standing and is of a classic design (worth a visit and photos if you go that way). Major connections through this streatch were with the Seaboard Air Line and Atlantic Coast Line at Petersburg, with a Southern branch line at Burkeville, and with the Southern main line at Lynchburg.
Personly, I am not a big fan of diesels. Was aiming on the N&W just cause they were one of the last roads to keep the old steamers running!
BeachBill, thanks, no, THANKS!!! That was one thing I was looking for. For the most part, I have been guessing that they ran there tracks close to the path of US 460. “Thinking: Windsor; Zuni; Ivor; Wakefield; Waverly; Disputanta; Petersburg (Fort Lee); Ford; Blackstone (Camp Pickett); Crewe; Nottoway; Farmville; Appomattox; Lynchburg” Towns that I know, have been to, and some my family call home! Always did wonder how Disputanta got that name… Sneeze good and hard and you will miss it, the “hole in the wall” that it is. Now, I am was trying to think…I saw a photo in a book not to long ago that showed a N&W J class passing though downtown richmond. I was taken when the line was still using steam, cause, Broad Street Station was STILL a train station! That was way before my time! haha!
I have also been guessing that Crewe was the Division point for this area of the N&W. Makes sence, see as the Virginian RR was just down the road at Victoria Va, and that was there Division point.
thinking about all this, makes me remember why I chose to model the N&W. God, it was maybe back in the late 80’s or very early 90’s. The 4-8-4 Jclass 611 came past were my grandparents lived in Petersburg on what now I guess was one of its last, or maybe its last railfan trips. Had no idea about it till I saw the smoke coming over the trees, over a block away. Ran up to the track side as it was turning on a wye track that is near there(just south of were I95 and I85 meet up) DAMN, that train was a work of art! You know, when you are a child of maybe 10 or 12, that thing is HUGE!
"Popular legend has it that William Mahone (1826-1895), builder of the Norfolk and Petersburg Railroad (now Norfolk Southern), and his cultured wife, Otelia Butler Mahone (1837-1911), traveled along the newly completed Norfolk and Petersburg Railroad naming stations. Otelia was reading Ivanhoe by Sir Walter Scott. From his historical Scottish novels, Otelia chose the place names of Wakefield as well as Windsor and Waverley. She tapped the Scottish Clan “McIvor” for the name of Ivor, a small town in neighboring Southampton County.
As they continued west, they reached a station in Prince George County where they could not agree on a suitable name from the books. Instead, they became creative, and invented a new name in honor of their dispute. This is how the tiny community of Disputanta was named."
Quite the contrary! I just dislike it when people keep spouting that the PRR owned the N&W, which was definately not the case at all!
There should have been a stop in Crewe to at least change engine crews. Crewe was a district division point. All freight T&E crews would change there. Passenger rules were a bit different. The Train crew may/may not have run through from Roanoke to Norfolk, Engine crews would change.
Having worked mostly in HO and now also in Fn3 (1:20.3), I’m not sure on the availability of N&W locomotives in N scale, but I know that there is a “J” available. Your selection of era would also allow you to run a “Jawn Henry”, which was completed in 1954. N scale’s opportunity to often allow gentle curvature should make those big locomotives look great.
I certainly agree on the beauty of the “J” in operation, and it is likely the quietest steam locomotive I have ever seen/heard. N & W:Giant of Steam by VPI grad Lewis I. Jeffries has been recently re-released and would be a good Christmas gift for you if you don’t have one.
From Richard Prince’s N&W Railway comes the following information that may be of use to you:
“Petersburg, VA was provided with a roundhouse, which during the 1930-40 period consisted of only four stalls. The 60-foot turntable was replaced with 85-ft. electrically operated in 1910. In later years a spare E2 Pacific type passenger engine was kept at Petersburg for emergency use… After the second World War the Petersburg roundhouse was replaced by a through 1-stall engine house located at the east end of town at Broadway Yard.”
“Crewe, VA… In 1910 an 85-ft. turntable was installed to turn the early Mallet locomotives. The roundhouse was completely rebuilt in 1914 with stalls lengthened for Mallets and number (of stalls) increased to 25. Finally, in 1919 an 115-ft turntable was installed. A small back shop and machine shop were also located at Crewe.”
Prince’s book (page 95) includes a photo of a wooden coal chute at Crewe, VA photographed in 1954. It is a classic design that would look great on any layout.
All sorts of history is involved in this area. Another posting mentioned William Mahone, who was known as the “Hero of the Crater”, from the 1864 Civil War battle at P
I always guessed Crewe had at one time a roundhouse and turntable, though I have never been able to see whats left of it in Satellite maping of the area. BUT, to learn my own home town of Petersbrug had one once, thats a real shock!!! I have never seen any trace of a turntable any were in the city… I know at one time there was a very large wye track with its tale end over on “Poachontast Is”.
Just asking, but you would not happan to know were about in town that tabel use to be? The only person I know in my family that would have know that I could ask would have been my grandfather but he passed away back in 96.
But, as for N&W power, I have found a few that can work…
Spectrum USRA Light 4-8-2 Mountain Spectrum(R) Steam Norfolk & Western 4-8-4 Class J Locomotive Spectrum(R) Steam 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain Spectrum(R) Steam USRA 2-6-6-2 w/Tender Con-Cor Steam USRA Heavy 2-10-2 w/Tender Model Power Steam 4-6-2 Powered Proto 2000 Heritage Series Steam Van Sweringen Berkshire 2-8-4 PROTO N Heritage Series Steam Collection USRA 0-8-0 PROTO N Heritage Steam Collection Y3 2-8-8-2#2040
All right out of the Walthers 2008 Reference Book![:)]
Not a bad list to work with. Hold off on any 2-10-2 lettered for N&W, as they didn’t have any. You could likely justify a 2-10-2 running through from the Seaboard Air Line (Class B #2400-2409 with 63" drivers and B1 #2485-2499 with 57" drivers). Class B1 locomotives lasted until 1953, but most had their last years in mine service near Birmingham. The Atlantic Coast Line also had 2-10-2s (Class Q-1 #2000-2019 with 63" drivers and the slightly smaller Class AF-1 #7401-7401 which had come off the Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast RR in 1946). I don’t think N&W had any Berks, either, although the Virginian had 'em.
I haven’t located any period map of Petersburg to help yet, but Prince’s book says that the Petersburg roundhouse was located just west of the passenger station. I expect that is right close to the Atlantic Coast Line north/south main line.
but, even using this, its hard to see anything that would be the left overs of a turntable or roundhouse…or a yard, other then the one headed out to Hopewell/FortLee but its east of the station.
It shows the Yard office for Petersbrug Va, and I belive that is a turntable in there. Now, the hard part for me is, just were in town was that Yard office and table and is there any trace of them there today…
As I look at that yard office picture, it appears that a passenger station is in the background, across several tracks from the yard office. There are a number of folks standing around the station.
I also looked at the link to the Yahoo arial photograph of the area. I must assume that the 2nd street overpass is relatively new construction. It looks like the station is just to the right of 2nd Street and on the South side of the tracks. Now, if the current station occupies generally the same area as the earlier station in the “yard office” photo, then that yard office would have been UNDER what is now the overpass. As I look at that arial photograph, it seems that there is a relatively circular impression just to the left of 2nd street and north of the tracks. That may be the turntable site. I have never been to this location (only travelled through there on I-95). The dead of winter is sometimes best for this type of “snooping around”, as with the underbrush and kudzu down one can better detect topography and former embankments, etc.
well, I have kinda set my idea on working out from Crewe both east and west. East to somewere about maybe around Windsor. West Bound to close to Lynchburg. I am going to aim for about 1950 +/- 4 years. I want to have the yard at Crewe with a fair size yard and roundhouse area, set as the midpoint of the line. I would like to have a loadsIn/EmptysOut coal carrier as a big part of it.
Also, at this time, the space for this layout, as yet to be gotten. I will be moving to a new apartment in a few months, so I will be building then. But, I want to plan for a layout that can be taken down and rebuild for any space that I can have. I dont want to do Ntrak, but, somthing along there lines. I want to work in N Scale, and have it as a around the wall plan. At best guess, I would say I have about 12 or 14 feet by maybe 8 or 9 feet.
Anyone got any ideas on what to add on how to go about planing it?
rt,
I think one very interesting area to model would be the Union Station complex in Lynchburg, Va. Union Station served the N&W, C&O and Sou at one time. Here is a link to some of the areas history; http://www.retroweb.com/lynchburg/rails.html