How fast could a light rail train travel? Would it be possible to build a line to light rail standards, and travel 100mph? Would it cost significantly less than conventional HSR? As an example, connecting Minneapolis and St. Paul, or heavy travel points in a metropolitan area?
I’m new to this forum, but thought I’d try a reply on your post.
There are many things you can do if you really want to - but would light-rail at 100 mph be useful? Now, that assumes the the line would provide similar service as do other light-rail lines (I can think of ones in Sacramento and Portland), where stations are relatively close as compared to heavier rail. By the time the train was up to 100 mph it would be time to stop, sometimes. Yet, the systems I rode in Sacramento and Portland seemed like they had no problem with speed when on a tangent and away from intersecting traffic. Their acceleration and decel were also comfortable for passengers.
One example that’s close to what you described is the Talgo the operates between Eugene and Vancouver, BC. It’s a one-level train-set that leans into curves, like a bike. When it’s getting out of the station, at slower speeds, etc., it can be kinda bouncy. At speed it rides pretty smooth. It operates on track designed for freight rail. The Talgo is supposed to be able to hit at least 120 mph, maybe more, but it purrs along at about 79 mph.
Don’t know about costs. I just figure that it depends on the customers being served and the substantive safety / operating conditions along the desired route.
G’day, Y’all,
Light rail seems to include so much. Here in Atlanta, GA, the MARTA trains are considered light rail but I’ve never seen any rail so heavy in my life. I liked it better when you had your trollies and your interurbans and your commuter trains instead of the catch-all of light rail.
A trolley normally stops about as often as a bus does in a city so you aren’t going to work up much speed between intersections which are about a furlong or an eighth of a mile apart. I’ve thought about it a lot and feel that if they get to 35 mph, they are rocking. An interurban would go considerably faster out in the country. The Atlanta Northern Railroad, owned by The Georgia Power Company, ran between Marietta and Atlanta along GA Hwy 3 until it bore off to the left and went down a long grade into Fulton County. A book I read said the interurbans would hit 65 on the downgrade and be rocking from side to side. Fun!
While riding with my then 15-year old daughter practicing her driving, we passed a place in this area where a long mound of earth stood. I feel sure that it was the right of way because it was in about the right place according to a map in the book.
The sad thing about that is that until a relatively few years ago, the right of way for the Georgia Northern was intact and could have had tracks relaid pretty easily. But the Georgia DOT widened Hwy 3 by getting hold of that ROW.
I would think that it is possible, but I doubt it would happen. Also to get any real advantage of high speeds, you would need a longer run that Minni to St Paul. The extra speed really wouldn’t be worth the cost, and would not get you there that much faster.
Bert
You could design “light rail” to go to bullet train speeds, but it would no longer serve a transit funciton since staring and stopping distances would put the stations too far apart.
The Karlsruh dual-mode (High voltage ac and regular dc) tram-trains regularly share tracks with the railroad’s high speed trains and then also with regular dc low-floor tram cars on city streets. It is a modern and extensive interurban system with a regular streetcar system at its core.
The North Shore regularly ran 90mph and also ran on Milwaukee city streets. Overall average speed was two hours Chicago - Milwaukee, about 90 miles, or 45 mph for the express trains using the elevated and slower operation in Chicago and streetcar tracks in Milwaukee.
Modern light rail usually averages about 22 - 36 mphs overall with frequent stops included.
Although it’s rapid transit and not light rail, the single-unit PCC rapid transit cars used by CTA when the Skokie Swift began operation were equipped with field taps to raise the top speed of the cars from 55 to 70 MPH. Since the Skokie Swift is only about 5-6 miles in length, the extra speed resulted in a time savings of only about a minute. The CTA decided that the extra speed was not worth the extra maintenance expense and removed the field taps.
Higher top speeds in light rail may be technically feasible, they’re just not practical.
I think most modern light rail vehicles have a maximum speed of about 65 mph. The ones here in Los Angeles can hiit 65 mph and there are some route segments where that is useful. I just read today that the new light rail vehicles for Charlotte, NC, have a top speed of 65 mph, but will be limited to 55 mph in service.
Merritt
Most light rail in the US is limited to 55mph by regulation I believe.
Also there is probably a current practical limit for operation of low floor cars. Without the solid center axles, some cars feel like they are hunting across track at 55mph. I have noticed this in Portland OR. The older high floor cars with regular solid axles seem to run smoother at those speeds on the same tracks.
Ron
Hold on to that strap!!! 80 mph was normal on the Interurbans in Albany-Scectadady-Saratoga NY…And once out in open country the trolley guys just opened up that throttle!!Indy Interurbans went 80-90…and of course the North Shore from Chicago-Milwallkiee was 100 mph on a slow day…
The RTA Cleveland OH Italian Breda LRV cars are geared for 80 mph but can only do 45 due to track conditions and siganal blocks…The recent challeges to them has been climbing steep grades built into the right of way coming out of the Cleveland River Flats at 7% grades…
[#welcome] to the Forum JAMeCK-Engineering and thanks for the info.
For what it is worth, the Portland Oregon’s Light Rail system, which we call “MAX”, is limited to 55 MPH but is capable of doing 100 MPH… The TALGO which runs from Eugene to Seattle and hopefully beyond, does bounce a little at slow speeds in the yard, due to rails and switches. The top speed for TALGO is limited by the rail speed., in the section it is running… That top speed is 79MPH. Hope this helps.
With regard to the TriMet MAX Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3 vehicles, NONE of them are capable of 100mph with their current gearing, and even if regeared, may not make 100mph. They are geared for 65, but may be hard pressed to make 62.
Also the issue of truck hunting at speed as previouly mentioned, cannot be ignored. I believe that the Type 1 cars, when new, did have a hunting problem that was fixed. It may be still a minor problem of the Type 2 and Type 3 cars. The best place to feel hunting in these cars is seated over the center truck of a car in the Washington Park Tunnel.
Ron
I think so you could link them together? You just talk to the state about it and they might build one for the connecting cities and states that you may connect together
As a child in Philly I remember several thrillingly high speed rides on the Red Arrow Lines interurban trolleys to the west of Philly. I understand that SEPTA still uses those same right of ways for, I believe, regional rail. Is this correct? If so, what kind of speeds do they hit?
Jack
Thwe newest Norristown line cars that replaced the famouse Brill Bullets can and do reach 70 mph on express runs where station stops are further apart. On the Sharon Hill and Media lines, the Kinki Sharon light rail cars are about as fast as the St. Louis and Brill lightweights, certainly faster than the old center-entrance cars, but the operators seemed very conservative to me with rarely a burst of speed.
…and don’t forget about the Liberty Liners that ran their last revenue miles with those Brill Bullets. I think in their North Shore days, they would operated at 90mph.
Morning everyone.
From what I have read and seem from just skimming, I think I need to bring up the Dallas Area Rapid Transit system (DART). Our light rail trains are rated over 120 mph. Although these light rail trains mainly run in the city there main line max speed is 65 mph. There is no reason at this time to ever get the light rail up to 100 mph. From riding the Dart system it is a great thing to have, but with the operators that are operating the trains, I would not trust riding with some of them. Even at 65 and 70 mph the light rail trains are ruff. I am not sure what the cause for this is, but I dont trust them over 70 mph. I am currently working for DART, and plan to go and start operating the light rail trains, so I will up date more often.
There is one piece of track on the Rotterdam, the Netherlands, tramway system on my regular commuting route where an operator of RET’s Alstom Citadis type LRV’s can go easily 70 kph and can push 80 if he or she has a mind to do it (the speed scale goes into the red after 80).
The Citadis type cars have a low floor and accelerate and decelerate rapidly. I have not detected any notable hunting. This in contrast with the older high floor cars of RET series 700 or 800 (build and rebuild by BN of Belgium I believe). They shake and rattle on that piece of track when running fast and I always have the feeling they will come of the track.
Rather than topspeed, wouldn’t quick acceleration and deceleration be more usefull?
greetings,
Marc Immeker
I recall riding the St. Louis system in-oh, 2000 I think-and the motorman saying that their cars were geared for 70mph, with some new ones geared for 90mph top speed. The top speeds in use though were less.
Marc Immeker is right, rapid acceleration and deceleration is much more important than top speed for light rail applications. These traits were among the prime selling points of the PCC car when it was first offered for sale in 1936. Rapid acceleration and deceleration is especially useful because station stops are often close together and the LRV will also have to be able to keep up with the flow of traffic where street running occurs.