Locomotives, why not shut off?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

My 13 year old son and I were returning home tonight and spotted GTW4900 sitting in a siding with a CWR train. It was there all weekend.

"Why"my son asked, “is the locomotive running while it is parked overnight?”

Good question to which I didnt have a good solid answer.

Next question was “how do you start a locomotive, put a key in it?”

So, why do locomotives run when between assignments? What is the proceedure (and how long does it take) to start a locomotive?

We appreciate the answers.

ed and Mo

2

For the most part, is keeping the oil warm, and moving through the engine.

Depends on the locomotive, some are as easy as putting a reverser handle in and pushing a button.
Older units you have to open a battery switch, and then open the engine compartment prime the engine. and engage the starter.

Does not take long to start an engine.

3

Most diesel engines used in locomotives cannot use antifreeze so either the locomotive runs, or the coolant must be drained out to avoid freeze damage. Antifreeze destroys the lubrication qualities of lube oil and any coolant leak into the lube oil system results quickly in destruction of the engine. Gasoline and automotive diesel engines are designed differently and coolant leaks into the lube oil are not typically not destructive to the engine.

Some locomotives are equipped with a standby coolant and lube oil heating system. There are both plug-in electrically powered standby heaters, and small engine powered standby heaters. Most locomotives do not have such systems because the cost of acquiring, installing, and maintaining the system is not recoverable in a reasonable amount of time, as most locomotives are intended to be working most of the time, not sitting around. For some locomotive applications, such as short line and industrial engines where it is known that the locomotive will regularly not work some significant portion of the day, then a standby heater makes economic sense.

In warm weather locomotives can be shut down between use and most railroads have instructions to that effect as a fuel conservation measure.

Another drawback of shutdown is that the crankcase (EMD) or block (GE) is a very large piece of metal and the expansion/contraction of startup/shutdown is not good for its seals. Newer engines are less affected; older EMDs like the 567B didn’t like that at all.

RWM

4

…I believe another reason they are kept running {winter time}, is the large amount of engine coolant is not protected from freezing, so the running engine takes care of that problem.

Believe some newer units start and shut down automatically by computer controlled programs according to the needs to keep the engine coolant from freezing.

5

That is correct.

RWM

6

the oil is a factor but more importantly they only use water and a rust inhibitor for coolant so the big deal is not letting the coolant tempature get near freezing while even though they have freeze plugs that are supposed to pop when the get near freezing they always dont work I once had a train and were travel 1 mile and sat for the remaining time till we went dead for time and we only used 10 gallons of diesel I don’t remember the tonnage of the train but in 12 hours time its less than a gallon an hour which is way cheaper than a new engine another reason which sometimes occurs is the batteries are bad and not all repair facilities are capable of changing them out so they will just let it run and when the loco is at a facility that can change them they will hope this helps

7

Ed and Mo,

Several reasons to leave them running.

As was mentioned, it keeps the diesel engine lubed and warm…in cold weather the water jacket can freeze…unlike your automobile, a lot of locomotive engines do not have a thermostat, so the water circulates constantly.

If they were shut off, the heat would dissipate quickly, and the water would freeze.

If the locomotive is attached to a train, as you mentioned this one was, or in a consist, the main air reservoir for the airbrakes needs to be kept charged, and the batteries need to be charged as well.

You never rely on just hand brakes to hold a CWR train in place, or any train for that matter.

If the air brake system was not kept charged, the air in the brakes would equalize to a point where the brakes would slowly release, and you’r in a world of hurt if that happens.

Some components of the electrical system (number board lights, system monitors/ computers and radio come to mind,) are left on all the time, so the batteries are under load or discharging all the time.

The diesel must be running to both run the air compressor for the brakes and the alternator to charge the batteries.

Depending on the age of the locomotive and the builder, it may have an auto shut off and auto start system also, as a fuel conservative measure.

This system will monitor the battery charge and the main reservoir pressure, as well as the water jacket temp, and if any one drops below a given or pre set level, it will start the diesel.

Once the air is charged up, or the batteries are re charged, and the water temp allows, the auto start/auto stop system will shut off the diesel to save fuel.

Keep in mind that unlike most engines, locomotive diesels are designed to run almost continuously.

Starting a locomotive diesel is fairly easy if you know the steps, as was mentioned in the above post…but it places a tremendous strain on the batteri

8

He is really going to be impressed in the morning with the answers.

Ed, you’re point about the CWR makes a lot of sense…wouldnt want that to get away. I noticed the number lights were on tonight, so that made sense too.

He will be amazed at all the reasons involved in this and will probably understand it better than me.

BTW, GTW4900 appears to either be a rebuilt GP9 or maybe a GP38. Either way, it is great to still see a GTW painted unit. Years ago the 4900 series were GP7’s or 9’s running long hood forward, other than E or F units, the best appearing locomotive around (IMHO).

Last Monday I spotted the Peoria and Western F units and RSD2 near Tazwell, Il, all units shut off. The answers today explain why.

Thanks to all and keep the comments coming.

ed

9

When the temperature gets near or below freezing, the fluids in the engine run the risk of freezing- keeping the engine running prevents the prime mover from seizing.

Starting an engine is a pretty simple process…a few switches in the cab, a lever or two on the engine block, and you’re pretty much good to go. I believe it’s even easier if the engine is Auto-start equipped.

10

Answer to question 1, from the CN Rail operating manual.

B3: Locomotive Shutdown Policy

Company policy requires that every effort be made to conserve fuel and protect the environment through a locomotive shutdown policy. Locomotives left unattended for any length of time or locomotives which are attended and are not expected to be used for 10 (ten) minutes or more must be shut down when it is reasonably known that the ambient temperature will be 5° Celsius (41° Fahrenheit) or greater.

This instruction applies to all assignments including yard power tying up for lunch and at completion of shift. Through freight trains that are yarded at terminals or fueling facilities must contact the RTC or terminal coordinator for instructions.

Locomotives arriving at the shop must be shut down unless otherwise directed.

EXCEPTION: When a train is left unattended with power attached, all locomotives in the consist EXCEPT THE LEAD LOCOMOTIVE must be shut down.

The exception is to ensure that the air brakes on the attached cars remain applied. If the locomotive is shut down, over time, the air brakes on each car and the locomotives will bleed off and release. If the power is shut down, the train must have at least 10% hand brakes applied unless special instructions dictate otherwise.

  1. Next question was “how do you start a locomotive, put a key in it?”
11

You would want at least one engine in a multiple unit consist to be running to maintain air, but it isn’t to hold the train. You don’t depend on air brakes to hold an unattended train. That’s why you tie hand brakes. The procedure we are required to do is tie the required amount of hand brakes, release the air brakes to make sure the train holds, then reapply the air brakes. If the engine download doesn’t show the release and re-set we get written up.

You would still want the train on air, because of the air test requirements. To keep an air test current, the train has to have brake pipe pressure maintained. If the train or a portion of it is off air over 4 hours, and a train with no engines maintaining air pressure is off air, a complete initial terminal air brake test is required on the portion off air. Just imagine if a CWR train needs an air test, and one of the cars turns out to have a bad order air brake. (One time we took a loaded CWR train into Council Bluffs yard for a 1000 mile air test. The carman got on board and the first thing he said was, “what do we do it we find a bad order?”)

Jeff

12

Different procedures up here in the arctic.

Train brakes applied in full service and hand brake applied on lead locomotive. Locomotive placed in throttle 1 to test that handbrake prevents movement of the locomotive. Turn off all lights, all switches in required posistions, lock doors, yada yada yada… This is then considered a secured train up here.

Applying additional handbrakes when not required could end up in discipline…

13

Semi related…a couple of weeks back I was at Eola yard and heard a conversation between a conductor and the BNSF mechanical desk in Ft. Worth on my scanner. The train crew had a GP60M go dead on them and they could not get it started again. The mechanical guy asked if the coolant level was good and they said yes but they could not start the unit again so (with temperatures in the single digits F) they made a “field decision” to drain the coolant from the GP60M onto the ground (likely not a problem with no antifreeze in the water mix) and proceed. Since they were eastbound towards Chicago and only about 35 miles from their destination (which would be about one hour or so at track speed from Eola) I was more impressed than ever with how quickly those prime movers will cool down once shut off. I guess in that case the road crew likely saved the “life” of the GP60M for BNSF.

14

Define ‘CWR’ please.

15

Unless I miss my guess, “Continuous Welded Rail”

16

Related question: I understand because of pressures and loads involved, running a diesel engine under high loads before it is properly warmed up will cause excessive wear and reduced life span. Is there a rule of thumb for required warm up time, or a go-no-go temp gauge you can use?

How would that affect your procedures if you man up a three locomotive train when only the lead unit has been running to maintain air and power?

17

I know I’ve seen signs posted in our locomotives to the effect of “do not place under load until temperature reaches…”

How long that will take just depends - someone else will have to try to fill in that blank.

In the case JS cites, the MU’d locomotives will have to allowed to warm up.

18

How to start a locomotive is a trade secret? I guess we shouldn’t pay any attention to the “engine start switch inside” decal on the side or the annodized aluminum plate with the instructions next to the switch…[;)]

19

useing the start switch without knowing what you need to do mechaicaly could totaly destroy the engine.

20

I’m not a railroad engineer but, one of the advantages of air brakes is that they are “fail safe” because they stop the wheels when you loose air pressure. Thus, if an air coupling or air line comes apart anywhere on a train, you can not move the train. If you shut down all engines the air compressors will stop, and I would think you would lose most of the air pressure in a matter of a few hours. Then the train won’t move until the air compressors are started and build up the required pressure to release the brakes.

So I’m sure you don’t need need to run a diesel to hold the train.

But I do wonder why they don’t use kerosene for coolant?

-Bill