I have been browsing through my Official Guide and have a question about various passenger train service. Does anyone know the definition of the following?:
Pictures of a Slumbercoach (economy form of roomette)
Pictured is Lounge area of a 5 Bedroom Observation Lounge
The 24-8 Slumber Coach was in a class by itself – berths for 40 people and bathroom plumbing in every room. That was quite remarkabe for an era where a “chair car” (overnight coach with deeply reclining seats) sat maybe 50 people because they had those rather large sex-segregated bathroom-smoking rooms at the ends. I rode a Slumber Coach once on the Amtrak Denver Zephyr from Denver to Chicago – think it was in 1973 or so – they were still running the SDP40F’s. The car was one of the Scottish “Loch” series – I was told this was ex-NP.
The 8 double rooms were essentially Roomettes into which they stuffed two berths. Don’t know how this worked with your travelling companion when you wanted to use the toilet in there. The 24 double rooms were “L” and inverted “L” double-stacks of Roomettes. They were in large part molded out of fiberglass to form the dove tailing “L’s.” And there was a toilet and sink in each of them – boy did that train car have plumbing in it.
I can’t remember if the toilet was accessible with the berth down, but something told me it was. I was age 16 when I rode the thing and don’t remember, but at age 47 if I rode a sleeping car and couldn’t get to the toilet in the middle of the night, boy would I remember that!
In terms of what goes around comes around, the long range jets can now go to any destination in the world without stopping for fuel. Richard Branson has got some kind of berth arrangement – are they open sections? And Northwest has billboards advertising a first/business class arrangement with deeply reclining seats with clamshell headboards to give you some kind of minimal noise isolation.
I rode the Southwest Limited in one of the Santa Fe Hi-level coaches the full 40 hours from Chicago to Pasadena, CA, and I don’t know if I would do it again. They had the deep recline leg rest seats, but 40 hours is a bit much – maybe the thing to do is to break the trip into 2 or 3 segments. Also, the chair car has the problem tha
It should be noted that in the Roomettes, one had to lift up the bed to use the facilities, whereas in the larger rooms, the facilties where usually located in closet-like annex, and in a Master Room, a shower was usually included also, a Master Room otherwise being like a drawing room. Also, sections generallyc could sit four people , two forward and two backwards, with a portable table between if requested from the porter, in day service, although usually only two passengers were acommodated, and at night there was both a lower and an upper (usually windowless) bed. One could pay for the whole section and leave the upper birth folded against the ceiling at night if one wanted the section to oneself. The upper birth was the cheapest sleeper space in a standard Pullman. It is still available on the Candadian, I believe. Facilities were usually at oppostie ends of the cars, one for men and one for women, and the men’s usually had a small smoking lounge with two hardback seats in the sink area with two toilets in two separate annexes. Outlets for electric shavers were probided, but not in the sections themselves. There were warnings not to use the outlets for anything but shavers, since the kind of current available could mess up electronic equipment.
Duplex Rooms were what the PRR had in its Creek class sleepers, and these were smaller than a double bedroom and larger than a roomette. Roomettes were lenthwise along each side of the aisle, ditto sections, but everything else was and is crosswise with a side ailse, including the duplex rooms. Space was saved in some duplex rooms by stepping some up so that headroom unnecessary over the bed was used under the seat of the next room, which is why the name Duplex. Other RR’s used this concept also, but the Creek class PRR sleepers that I remember best, and yes the classic Broadway included these and they were popular.
Wow, u6729csx has done an awesome job of not only defining the terms, but coming up with some great illustrations.
The only thing I would add is that you have seen “sections” in hundreds of movies from the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. They were by far the most common kind of sleeping accommodations until the roomette/bedroom wave after World War II. Sections came with upper and lower berths, and when the car was made up for night, the heavy green curtains were all that separated the sleepers from the aisle. Comedy writers loved them.
I would only add that the Slumbercoach certainly was an amazing piece of rolling stock. Paul’s right – the facilities were accessible with the berths made up; no problem. The wash basin was over the WC., and tilted up and away so you could use the WC. I loved them. Rode on them many times, both before and after Amtrak.
(1) Roomette room for single passenger with pull down bed and private toilet facility beneath bed so bed had to be raised at night. Sink and mirror located in room some had fixed sink others had fold down sink.
(2) Double Bedroom room for two passengers with either bench type seat that has back fold down into bed and second bed drops from ceiling. Other double bedrooms have two folding lounge chairs that go beneath lower bed at night. Prewar cars had toilet in room postwar cars had separate toilet annex.
(3) Parlor Car first class day car most coomon had single swivel seats on either side of aisle. Budd type had lounge type seating with backs to wall. CN Club cars features a paired set of seats on one side of aisle and a single seat on other side of aisle. CN club cars also featured a airline style galley to serve meals at passengers seats. Later copied by PC in NE corridor. Other Parlor cars featured Parlor Drawing rooms, Roomettes and Bedrooms for day use only. These were common on New Haven and UP 457-458 with dome parlor car actually train of tomorrow Dome sleeping car dream cloud rooms sold at parlor rates never used by UP in sleeper service.
(4) Tavern Lounge cars : These cars came in many different configurations from part car to full length tavern lounge cars. Some cars featured a stand up bar at one end or in the center (SP) of the car and lounge seating at tables for two or four or lounge type seating with the circular ashtrays that held drinks as well inh the aisle. Other railroads Tavern Lounge cars were located in 1/2 car and a aisle separated it from rest of car. Tavern and Tavern lounge seating located at one end of car and other half was a lounge only with lounge seating only. Generally no alcoholic drinks could be consumed in the lounge only areas.
(5) Compartments were larger than a double bedroom and were very similar with postwar compartments haveing separate bathroom annexs.
(6) Drawing Room was a room that was for three people but railroads would sell to a singl
roomettes for one passenger only? When i got married in 1956 I had a CP rail pass
My wife travelled from Montreal to Vanvouver & return on our honeymoon on the Dominion, My pass was not valid on the Canadian. Would you beleive we shared a roomette, and did so on three other tri[ps out west. Of course we were a bit thinner then and had a bare bones budget. Will be going out west again via Amtrak from Philly to Seattle/Vancouver next year and will have a bedroom. We prefer the Amtrak route over the Via route as a mentioned in a previous forum.
I have ridden in both slumbercoaches and roomettes. I prefered slumbercoaches for two reasons.1 Slumbercoaches were substantially cheaper than roomettes. 2 In slumbercoaches the commode was accessable with the bed down. In a roomette the commode was under the bed,which had to be raised to use the facilities in the night[:(!].
I have never had the opportunity to ride in a sleeping car. But I think it would be a very interesting way to travel. There is at least one available on a rental basis. Maybe we could rent it and take a weekend cruise.
Worse than the SP automat cars, where I did find the food at least edible and not overpriced, were the snack cars that Penn Central used to replace diners before Amtrak. The plastic-wrapped cheese samwiches were usually stale, and other food in about the same league. Meanwhile, the CN-GT, AT&SF, GM&O-IC, Southern, D&RGW, and UP were still serving really great food in their diners. Others, also.
Back in the 1980s I took VIA’s Canadian from Vancouver to Banff–back when VIA used CP rails rather than CN rails. What scenery!
My then-girl friend and I slept in Sections – she had the lower I had the upper. Talk about comedy writers loving Sections. I am six foot eight inches high. I cannot imagine what the curtain looked like out in the aisle when I struggled in and out of my clothes. Nor do I remember exactly how I ever lay down to sleep; even the fetal position was nearly impossible. I hope when my time comes my casket is more spacious and comfortable than that. Frankly I think I would have slept better in a large reclining chair seat.
The other great adventure was shaving in the lavatory because by mornign we were into the Rockies and the train jerked quite a bit. Ah, but breakfast in the diner!
Dave Nelson
AMTRAK’s website pictures/describes currently available sitting/sleeping arrangements in its trains. Also, the recently published volumes in Southern Pacific Passenger Cars has pictures, floor plans, and descriptions of most of the configurations. Volume 1 is on coaches and chair cars, and volume 2 is on sleepers & baggage dorms. Included is info on lounge cars, as well as all-day-lunch cars (coaches with small dining areas and limited cooking facilities) and news-agent cars (coaches with beverages, cold food, and reading materials.) The SPH&TS published these books. They are quite expensive but worth it especially if you are a Southern Pacific fan.
Couple of points to make. Two of us traveled in slumbercoach on Amtrak in 1981 on the old B’way Limited Route. Pre-Amtrak, or better said perhaps pre-1968, it’s my understanding that one reason Slumbercoaches were so much cheaper (other than the economies of fitting in more paying passengers per car) is that the cars belonged to the RR, not Pullman. Is that true?
Also should say that berths (sections) are found still on many Canadian overnight train. Smart money says they may not last long, though.
Also want to ask if someone can clean up the distinction between parlor cars and club cars. Parlor cars are first-class, but I’ve heard the term “club car” used to refer not only to them but to the observation/lounge or tavern type of car in which the passengers weren’t expected to spend all their time there (they had seats/rooms elsewhere), but which were available for use at no extra fare or sometimes available to first-class passengers only.
Is this “parlor car” “club car” just a matter of sloppy usage or does it come from different terminology from different RRs (the way a “chair car” and a “coach” can sometimes have some overlap in meaning)??
After the anti-trust suit which split Pullman-Standard the carbuilder and Pullman Company the sleeping and parlor car operator and until 1967 or 1968, most sleeping cars were owned by the railroads and leased to the Pullman Company for operation. This also applied to the Slumbercoaches, which were the last pre-Amtrak sleeping cars to be built.
One of the reasons that Slumbercoaches were cheaper was that the railroad charged a coach rather than a first-class fare and the Pullman space charge was of course cheaper than other sleeping car accomodations.
Parlor cars were different than club cars. In the Pullman days, parlor cars were extra-fare, reserved seat accommodations meant for same-day travel. They were more luxurious, having individual chairs, than coach and, like other Pullman cars, had attendants. New Haven’s Merchant’s Limited, which ran between NYC and Boston, was an example of a parlor car train. Club cars were essentially bars with seating, serving all passengers. Some had other amenities such as concierge service, barbers, showers, and stenographers. AFAIK, they were operated by the RRs.
See: Welsh & Howes, Travel by Pullman, MBI Publishing Company.
A really rare bird was a Pullman Parlor Car. As far as I can tell, only PRR, NH and Wabash had them in the postwar era. Although parlor cars on other railroads were still considered first-class cars, they were railroad-operated.
Some of the New Haven Parlors were combines! In fact ALL the fluted side postwar combines were parlor combines. While the Merchants was at first all-parlor, by the time I was finishing up at MIT it was coach and parlor and so was the Yankee Clipper, the two Grand Central trains that always had all post war equipment (except for a baggage car which up to 1955 could be wood-sided!) The combine parlors were used on the lesser Boston and Springfield trains where fewer parlor seats were sold then on the premier trains. At one point, if the Parlor was not all sold out, the conductor would upgrade you to Parlor for $10 or $25, I forget which, as so I got to ride those cars a number of times.
Well, I was too young to see and enjoy the sleeping cars while every railroad still had passenger service. [:(] [:(!] [:(]
I know there are some in charter service. One of these days I am going to try to ride in one on an excursion trip.
Does anyone know if there is a museum that might have a number of the old sleeping cars that can be toured? I would love to see the variety that those cars came in. Sometimes pictures just don’t do them justice. [:(]
In the book, A Century of Pullman Cars, by Ralph Barger, I counted at least 100 heavyweight parlor car Pullmans. A typical parlor car had a configuration of 26 chairs 1 drawing room, although the Friar’s Club, which sometimes ran on Pennsy’s Potomac was almost unique in that it also had a bar. The Yankee Clipper and Merchant’s Limited, which at inception had all parlor car consists, included the observation cars Flying Cloud and Flying Fish, parlor-buffet-lounge-sun room cars.
Makes sense that it was mainly eastern railroads that had Pullman parlor cars (also called chair cars). In Pullman’s heyday, the only markets that were large and affluent and close enough to support parlor cars were on the east coast. The only other markets that may have supported parlor cars may have been Chicago-St. Louis (Wabash) or Chicago-Minneapolis. The C&EI Zipper (Chicago-St. Louis) normally included an Empress series parlor/observation car.
In the lightweight era, the LIRR also had a lot of parlor/coach cars.
Much to Amtrak’s credit, you might say business class on the Acela attempts to recreate the parlor car ambiance. Again, this is only on the NEC.