Major track problems (again!) - Redo the mainline?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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This post started a couple hours ago begging for help about what to do with the layout at this point; most of the track on my layout is flawed, most of the 20+ turnouts were out of gauge, and I felt like I’d never be able to get the layout operational. Now I’ve had a few hours to calm down and think about the problem, and I’ve arrived at a rather drastic idea. Last time I was here I rebuilt the main classification yard at the suggestion of a friend, so this actually isn’t that bad…

Here’s my idea to fix my track problems: Tear up most of the mainline and re-lay it.

Before you are convinced that I’ve gone crazy, let’s have a little background:

I’ve always had track problems on my layout, but with rising standards on my part (I’m sick of re-railing stuff) and an operating session looming two months away; I need to do something about it.

I have 20-something Atlas Code 100 turnouts on the layout, and many of them are out of gauge. I also have a large amount of bad joints between track sections.

I don’t want (read don’t have) to spend the money for Peco turnouts, so I will probably repair the turnouts. The track, however, has just too many joints to fix all of them.

I am seriously considering ripping up the main line and redoing it with all new flex track and cork roadbed, which it is lacking now. Some scenery will also be torn up and redone because if I’m redoing the track there anyway, I might as well redo the scenery I don’t like.

This will be a big project, and cost me a lot of money for the materials (cork roadbed, flextrack, and ballast are the biggies) and I need some advice here, partly to make the decision, but also to convince me to keep going when (and if) I start the project.

You have to understand I’m on an incredibly tight budget; I’m literally bankrupt right now, and my ability to make money is very limited. I also have some things that need to be done for the operating session; notably metal wheels for an entire train of Athearn Impacks…

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I say redo it!

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First take a deep breath–I’m also in a bit of a financial pickle so I know where you are coming from–If you can save even a couple of bucks a week—knock a coffee or two off a week–that might work–second take a very close look at any flex track you have–I had two that I tore off the layout only to find out that all they needed was a bit of sanding of spurs. Solder joints may only be a bit rough–as to out of gauge turnouts–that depends on how out of gauge they really are–could only need adjustment. Cork roadbed might be needed but look closer. What did you visualize the layout as? If a branchline you may not really need it because generally any branchline I seen did seem to rest directly on the ‘ground’ without all the drainage etc associated with them.

Anyways my scribblings may be of somee use to get some answers fired up here—

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I was in a similar situation when I was in school, lots of enthusiasm, little (or no) money. Repairin what you have with the money and materials available will be a good education. To this day, I can take an old Tyco diesel licomotive and make it run smoothly with the original motor unit. And that’s just one of the skills I developed from an empty wallet.

If you can figure out a plan that the layout can be retracked in stages, you can do this as finances permit, but tracking down the problems and solving them can make it easier to avoid them in the future. Start with the bad track joints. You didn’t say if it was an electrical or alignment problem, but either can be solved. You also didn’t say if you were going it alone or if you had a more experienced modeller to ask for assistance. A good on-line resource for all kinds of info, especially the basics, is the NMRA:

http://www.nmra.org/beginner/

If you don’t pick up the basics, you’ll keep making th same mistakes until you get frustrated and move to video games.

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Here’s a drastic change… Buy Micro Engineering Code 83/70 Rail, and a lot of wood cross ties, and handlay your mainline… Try ebay for more flextrack, I don’t think my club has anymore. When your rebild, You might consider building a highline through Dooley/Stude, or atleast a head start to elimate the 4% grade, and cut it down to 1-2%. Whatever you choose, best of luck to you.

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Just a thought. With so many bad turnouts unless they have been abused perhaps the track leading into them has stressed them to be out of gage. I had that happen particulary coming out of curves. As for the bad joints if the rails are in the rail joiners maybe filing the track would help. If there is too large a gap that can be filled.

Just my 2cts worth.

Good luck !!

Bob

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yeah dude… handlaying would be great, but you don’t have any money to work with so thats pretty much out of the question.

however, if you dont have an NMRA guage, then you absolutely must buy one. i’m assuming you do, though.

anyway… if theres THAT many bad joints/kinks with the track, I would tear it all out and re-lay it. Hastily-laid track is just plain stupid… its so worth it to take your time, and make sure everything is perfect.

the key is to fit the flextrack into the turnouts. You can’t try to fit turnouts into a space… everything starts with them (if you’re using pre-fab).

and ballasting can certainly wait.

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I have a hard time believing that you have 20 Atlas turnouts that are “defective” and that far out of guage that they are causing major problems. I have been using Atlas products in one way or another for almost 40 years and I’ve only come across 2 or 3 turnouts that were far enough out of guage or otherwise defective to cause problems. This is a critical point, because if its NOT the track that’s defective then it could be the installation of the track, in which case, if you install the new track in the same way, it will be just as problematic as the track you have.

So before you rip up the whole thing, I would make absolutely sure that it is a manufacturer’s defect in the track that is causing the problem.

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so, solder joints in flex track, have done so and the small movement that climant changes make have also given me headaches.

solution-no longer solder joints, leave a bit of space between rails for expansion n contraction, drop feeders from each section.

it works.[:)] and is actually less work n headache.

now my atlas stuff is bulletproof, and it stands up great to any enjoyment my grandchildren and their friends have.

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Tyler,

If you’re telling us most of your mainline is sectional track and that’s why you have a bazillion joints, yeah, go for the flextrack. You’ll be much happier, in spite of the expense and work.

Take care in laying the cork so that it is on a smooth surface and take special care at any transitions. I like to run one of those rasp planes over it before I lay track on it. This helps keep things smooth, too.

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Tyler,First I won’t tell you to rush out and buy all new track and what I will tell goes against the flow but,I speak from my last 4x8 sectional track layout that I built about 15 years ago…I have also used sectional track on 2 ISLs since then and had no problems.

The secrete in using sectional track is to take your time laying it making sure all the joints are smooth and tight and the track stays straight…As for your switches those can be fixed by using your NMRA gauge-also ensure they are level and the points are completely closing…

Again its always best to take your time in laying track…I can not stress that enough because sloppy laid track-including flex will cause tons of grief.

Also always make sure all wheels are in gauge and coupler trip pins at the correct height.

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DonZ, give me a call…

Ty, redoing the work is probably the best thing you can do, but limited funds limit the scope of the work.

Where specifically are the turnouts out of gauge? There are some fixes you can do, and even some while the turnouts are in place, but if you need to remove them, there is that risk of damaging them further unless you left them floating on the cork.

If you are going to do this, then a “redo” of the worst rail joints might be in order. Do you have a three point gauge as well as an NMRA gauge?

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What shall I call you??? [:-^]

Don Z.

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Are all of your cars weighted right, trucks are adjusted right, and couplers the same hieght? doing all of that makes a huge difference. When you made the joints/connections in the track, did you make sure all the joints and transistions (especially turnout points) were smooth? I ask this, because it could be your equipment, and not your track. (I had a problm with several of my cars being light, trucks being too loose or too tight and coupler height being off; now that that’s all fixed, there’s no problems even on the club’s modular layout, which has some really rough trackwork)

BTW, I have 17 pieces of cork that I probably won’t be using for several years (read, after I get out of college and land a decent job) If you want them, PM me.

Have you tried doing chores around the neighborhood for extra funds? For instance mowing lawns, shoveling snow, washing cars, repairing cars, removing stumps etc. I did all but one of those (what you can’t do in florida) until I got my job now.

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TTY:

How about this idea…take a couple rolls of pennies and ran trains as much as you could for a week or so…and every time one derails, you put a penny at the spot where the derailment happened and write down the car number, or put a tally mark by it if it’s already there. After that, see if there’s anywhere that collected a lot of pennies, or any high-scoring cars. Problems tend to follow patterns more than we realize. This should save you some money, and you can use the pennies to weight the cars, too. [:D] I hate to see somebody get involved in major expenses when money is already tight.

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MY THOUGHTS:::

Most prefab turnouts are out of gauge somwhere. Best answer is to spike-in switch kits… Everything then is in gauge and kits contain all the parts… Good lomg-nose pliars are worth their weight in gold. Fibre or wood ties work, but plastic has entered the fray…

I would replace troublesome switches first.and make sure all wheels are in gauge. Having appropriate gauges is essential.for reliable operation.When you see how good switch kits operate , you’ll say to yourself “Why didn’t I Think of those originally?”

ATLAScode 100 switches are difficult to repair. (Low price). Replacing one-at-a-time makes it affordable. All Atlast switches are 'hot’and Peco’s are 'power routing. Micro-engineering and Walthers electrically duplicate the Atlas but are are only available in code 83.

Choices, choices…

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I can’t look at your photos or videos at the present time (my problem, not yours) so my 2 cents is predicated on your text only.

I doubt simply switching to flex track and replacing turnouts in and of itself is going to solve your derailment problems. If your problem is truly poor rail joints, then guess what, you are still going to have derailments from poor rail joints after you have laid the flex track. You have to change how you are joining track sections to have different outcome. Using flex track instead of sectional track merely cuts down on the number of joints - but introduces new problems with kinks - if you keep your smae track laying methodology.

Similarly, simply adding cork roadbed won’t solve any derailment problems. Derailments stem from a number of sources - out of gauge, out of round, out of square wheelsets, as well as rough track joints, track kinks, and out of gauge turnouts. But derailments suck the life out of model railroading - especially when visitors are present. You have been given several suggestions on how to minimize derailments at minimal cost. Here’s mine:

  • Get an NMRA and Kadee coupler height gauge and use them ruthlessly. Any car or locomotive that isn’t perfect with respect to wheel gauge, truck squareness, wheel wobble, truck mounting, coupler and trip height, coupler swing, etc., gets removed from service on the layout - immediately. And no sneaking it back until is perfect! In my case, doing this has taken me down to 1 locomotive and 5 cars - but those few never derailed! Much better to operate derailment-free with 5 cars than to have 30 cars that derail everytime you turn your back.

  • Do the same to all your turnouts. Any turnout that doesn’t pass with the NMRA gauge in all respects gets fastened in the straight position until it is repaired. It is not t

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Sorry it took so long to get back to you all! I’ve been away from the computer since I posted originally. I’ll try to reply to all the responses in order:

Barry: All the money I make goes into the layout; there’s not really anything to cut back to save money for the railroad. I am thinking that I’m just going to re-gauge the turnouts; as most of them aren’t badly out of gauge and I really don’t want to have to purchase new ones of those too.

And the layout is a bridge route through the mountains, it had bad track at the time of the state’s acquisition of the line, but it has since been upgraded. I’m seeing it as a high speed bridge route (it has to be fast to have an advantage over the NECR) with a few bottle necks that can’t be fixed with just good ballast and track (notably the single-track pass with the 4% grade). I think I really want ballast on the Stude-Dooley siding, as that’s the one part that looks most like a double track main, with heavy rail and a set of crossovers.

Tom: I am thinking of doing this in stages, starting with the Stude-Dooley siding, and then moving on to just putting roadbed underneath the mainline past the yard, which has no been ballasted and just needs roadbed. The problems with my joints is both kinks and gaps, as I allowed small gaps when tracklayin

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Hi from Belgium,

Well money is the only problem we have all on this planet and sometimes or wife…

Well about your topic, You can may be find second hand flextrack at public show where auction are often made at very affordable price.

For turnouts you can follow the same way.

Look at some advertiser they sometimes make special offers which are good opportunity too.

If you are sure to be a life time model railroader may be an another way is lay yourself your track, it could be done at a very affordable price if you have a little more time to work.

I hightly recommand you a visit at www.handlaidtrack.com a company who sell all the things you need to make your own track.

Yes it’s need some investment but for a life time modeling it’s a good way to do very accurancy track at a affordable price.

To finish, if you are ready to redo all your track ,think at a finer profile to work with it, like code 83 or 70 in HO or code 55 in N .

Good luck anyway.

Marc

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Actually, its more like a 2 hour trip if you include bus and subway…

You never know if you’re good at handlaying until you try. Next Time I see you I’ll bring over some shtuff.

The 3 point gauges are used mostly when handlaying track, and are made by micro engineering.

Code 100 3 Point Gauge