I can’t understand why the prices are so high for DCC and for that matter all Good Engines considering they are made in China. If it is that costly to manufacture railroad related parts… then why don’t we have more manufacturing made with good old Yankee know how.
I have made myself a promise to buy only American made goods. Lets put our dollars where they will do our country the most good.
Michael J. Maioriello
Michael,
First off,Welcome to the Forums,As far as the China thing,check out some of the posts that are going on now,especially,‘‘What’s with Walthers’’,you will get so much info,it will make your ear’s ring…LOL…
Cheers,
Frank
ummmm… I’m not sure what the intent of your post is OP… It confuses me to say the least.
Being in the USA, and Buying USA American made items is applaudable, to say the least.
BUT: there ARE things that ARE not made in the USA, that if you want or need, you will have to go outside the USA to get. Like, maybe, Locomotives for your trains.
BUT: DON’T let the “MADE IN USA” label confuse you!!!
Also, the USA Government has declared that to be labeled “Made in USA” or “Made in America” that only 70 % of it be produced or assembled here in the USA!. SO about a third of it can be done OUTSIDE the USA.
Lets say the USA leather is not as good as Bangladeshi leather because their pigeon poop that tans the hides is far superior to our bird poop {factual in areas where they use bird poop to promote the tannery process- I know, gross but the workers also have to actually work in the stuff}}, And you want the BEST tanned hides, so you go to Bangladesh to get the leather, and import it to USA to make XX item, all manufactured and cut out, and put together-hopefully-70% of it- for a “made in the USA” label.
You go where you can get the BEST made raw materials, regardless of what country they come from and assemble here to make the BEST USA made products.
THE USA has also run out of a lot of the raw materials for some things, so the raw materials at least are imported.
So, Made in USA, Made in America is all relative.
I applaud your noble efforts, and have approached that myself, but if it is twice the cost or more to buy USA or so, or I cannot afford the USA item, I buy what I can that is at least maybe assembled here. If I cannot find anything, though, made in the USA, I buy what is available from China or where ever. I think we should buy american. but when not avaialble, it seems the USA has “dropped the ball”.
YANKEE know how may NOT be cheaper than China, though IT MAY
Some items are made in the USA. Digitrax DCC systems and decoders; NCE DCC systems and decoders; Kadee products, to name a few. Components within those DCC systems may come from all over the world, but they are assembled in the USA - Digitrax in Florida and NCE in New York State.
Some products are made in Canada, Germany, and countries other than China, so it’s inaccurate to say that everything is made in China.
Many people seem to assume that products made in China should sell at very low prices, but the standard of living in China has reached the point that some manufacturers are now looking for other locations with cheaper labor, such as Vietnam, India, Cambodia, etc.
And what might that be Galaxy ???
Johnboy out…and just wondering.
One must relize that there are more jobs created by importing than by manufacturing a lot of items, period. It is a good thing that the Chinese have become dependent on us and others as they will do there best not to upset us but they will handle things in there own way. Like when some manufacture there put lead paint on toys imported to the US, two big honchos were mainly responsible, one committed suicide and the other was executed!!!
Mike, welcome to the forums - [#welcome] - and the real world.
Niche market items (which describes all model railroad supplies) are ALWAYS more expensive than people think they should be. There isn’t enough production to gain economy of scale. Also, manufacturing in the USA is saddled with a myriad of rules (thanks, OSHA, EPA and various state mandates) and recording requirements that add to cost but not to product value. It’s actually cheaper for makers of some of those, “Made in USA,” items to fabricate all the parts in their American factory and then send them to ??? to be put together. The fabrication is automated, the assembly isn’t.
Note, too, that the Chinese government has started to mandate minimum wages and benefits for factory workers. As a result, some Chinese work is being outsourced to Vietnam. Where will they go next? GOOD question.
Since my own modeling does not follow North American prototype, I can’t buy Made in America, or even Made in China. (There will be an ice age in Hades before any Chinese willingly manufactures anything of Japanese design! There’s enmity there that goes clear back to the original Kamikaze that decimated Kublai Khan’s invasion fleet.) And, if you want real sticker shock, just price present-day HOj scale product from Tenshodo - a simple catenary motor comparable to a GG1 will leave pocket change from three one kilobuck bills.
So, what to do? &nb
hi Bronxmike
That is a worthy attitude to have to support your local product
And one I never will have where model railways is concerend
If I had the same attitude to Australian trains I would not have a model railway it would cost three times what it does to model US or UK trains.
They are made in China and if you can work out why the US and UK stuff is one third of the price
of the Australian stuff when the price should be of similar amount to the others.
I would love to know .
Unfortunately its the way of the world but to get a truly made in the country you live product.
you have to make it yourself, and there is no guarantee that everything you need to make it
is locally produced…
regards John
Gidday Mike, [#welcome] to the forums and “The New World Order”.
Don’t worry the US is not the only country to face this dilemma. I look at the amount of products that were “Made In New Zealand” that are now made, under the same brand names, in China,that are not appreciably cheaper , yet we are told that if the product was still made locally it would be unaffordable.[sigh]
I admire your stand, but then I too have been known to “bite off my nose to spite my face”. [swg]
Cheers, the Bear.
It appears that no one on this forum have heard of shareholders or profit.
Yes, it is only a matter of time before China becomes too expensive and the it will become which 3rd world country takes over.
If North Korea changed their ways towards the Western countries they might have had a chance to be next in line.
I have made myself a promise to buy only American made goods. Lets put our dollars where they will do our country the most good.
Well, that’s kind of shortsighted considering the number of Boeing aircraft in the fleets of various Chinese airlines and also considering the fact that the price (discounted no less) of a single 737 (the smallest airliner made by Boeing) probably exceeds the value of all the model railroad equipment exported from China in a single year by a wide margin.
Boeing’s just delivered the first of 10 787’s to Hainan Airlines, China’s 4th largest airline, which currently has a fleet of 106 Boeing aircraft. http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2734
China Southern has also started receiving 787’s. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2013-06/03/content_16557999.htm
Andre
I can appreciate all the remarks that have been made.
My issue is only about model railroad parts from companies like Walthers and Broadway Limited and such. I know we have EPA Laws and various Governmental restrictions that make things here more costly. We can at least breath the air in the USA and don’t go around wearing face masks to breath as they do in Chinese commercial sectors that burn coal. With Walthers I am talking about pure injection moulded plastic that they charge ridiculous prices for, We should be penalizing all countries that do not play on a level field. Maybe we could grow our hobby if we stop giving the protection of being a US corporation to companies that don’t give a darn what it cost to build a plastic steel mill.
Sorry if I offend anyone, I just remember a time when I used to see plastic pellet cars lined up on sidings waiting to be made into products and those same factories are now gone forever. Anyone who lives in the Bronx should take a ride around Hunts Point a see all the big companies that are gone for good. Lets us make use of our current trade laws to equal things up just a little. That is the end of my thoughts and I won’t offend anyone else as I am not an economics professional just a model railroader looking for a break now and then.
Mike J. Maioriello
Don, that is a straw man argument. Nobody in the model train business is getting “RICH” at the expense of workers in China or hobbiests in the US. They are simply making a living.
And, only ONE model train company that sells trains in the US has shareholders to answer to. Not one model railroad manufacturer, its parent company is on the NYSX. The ONE company that is publicly held is Kader in China, the parent of Bachmann.
The rest are mostly all US based privately held companies, a great many are family owned small corps of one type or another.
Don’t confuse this hobby with big business - it is not. I will refer you to Andre and his example of Boeing Airplane exports to China vs US imports of model trains.
I will ask the same question someone else recently asked on another thread where pricing and means of production came up - How many of you who are complaining abut prices have ever run your own business? I’ll bet not many. Because as a business owner myself, I don’t complain about what others charge, and I have no need of people who complain about what I charge. My success speaks clearly to the fact that what I charge is fair.
I have no problem with those who sell for less, they know what their work is worth.
Sheldon
Also, its literally impossible for the US to ever become a third world country, so people should stop throwing that little meme around.
First world means US and NATO. Second world…sort of stopped existing because it was the USSR and the Warsaw Pact. Third world was the Non-Aligned nations. The US cannot be non-aligned with itself.
I’ve had a manufacturing job before. I grew up with people that worked in the industry and surrounded by others that did. Not making plastic trinkets and cheap toasters is something I look forward to our country doing. We are a nation of airliners, heavy equipment, ships, rockets, and things that cost billions of dollars. That’s what we should be worrying about building.
Mike,I see the same here in Ohio but,here’s the rub…Most moved South for lower wage, taxes breaks etc…Several major employers here in Bucyrus closed shop or closed shop and moved.
At any rate I still see lots of plastic pellet covered hoppers on NS and CSX…
There’s still millions of industries left in the USA.
Mike, I don’t know what you do for a living, but I know what the cost of living is where you live - no thank you.
The US priced it self right out of a lot of industries - sometimes with government regulation, sometimes with wages/benefits.
How much more are you willing to pay for model trains? - A quick search of this forum will net you dozens of threads complaining about prices. None of these guys are willing to pay more for “made in USA”.
I’m not offended at all by your views, but I know from my own experience of being self employed most o
This reminds me of how ironic international trade can be sometimes. I was in logistics with the Canadian government. Back in the seventies a lot of the older NATO warships apparently still used vaccum tubes in their electronics. This included Canadian and U.S. warships. Now the only place still manufacturing these was the Soviet Union. So with the Soviet Union being our sworn enemy, we could not possibly put in an order with them.
There was this little country called Cuba (not far away) that was allied with the Soviet Union, it was closed off from the U.S. for reasons well known. However Canada still had open relations with Cuba and would order all the Vacuum tubes we wanted through Cuba. When the plane landed in Vancouver from Cuba, the military liaison officers from the various NATO countries including Canada and the U.S. would be standing in line for me to have their vacuum tubes unloaded.
So the moral of the story is. If it wasn’t for international trade, the West would have lost the cold war.[(-D]
I have been self employed and run businesses. I will still complain about the cost of buying things but still would not want someone to dictate those to someone. Besides, things have never been cheaper here and if you want the latest and greatest, you get to pay full retail, me I like deep discounts so I buy everything at deep discount including trains but there is a cost, time, which I have a lot of.
If you have shareholders they want max profit.
If I had shares in a manufacturing company and I would most likely receive higher dividends if the company moved their operations to Ch