most powerful steam locomotive?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

what is the most powerful steam locomotive in the world?[|)]
I wont to know what you think is strait answer no BS.[:(!]
the name of the locomotive and that is it…[}:)]
OK[:)] know I personaly think that it is the yellowstone.[:D]

Yellowstone[:)]

2

What was the Yellowstone’s horsepower rating? A Big Boy was rated at around 6,000 hp and could pull a train 5 miles long uphill.

3

Why would they need helpers if a Big Boy could pull 400-600 cars.
With 5 miles of train that’s over 25,000 feet and at an average of 50 ft per car, that’s about 500 cars.

4

Truth be told, there is no straight answer.

Contenders for that title are:

Union Pacific Big Boy
DM&IR M3/4 Yellowstones
C&O H-8 Allegheny
Virginian 2-10-10-2
N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2
Great Northern R-2 2-8-8-2 (which I never hear mentioned in threads like this)

Overall, I think the M3/4 has the most sheer force.

5

What about NP’s Challengers and their Yellowstones?

6

If you define power as tractive effort the N&W Y-6b when starting with high pressure steam to all four cylinders wins. If you go by the more common “work done” ,that is the combination of speed and tractive effort , the PRR Q-2 duplex 4-4-6-4 registered 7000
drawbar horsepower on a dynonometer car. The C&O 2-6-6-6 allegehny was also in that neighborhood.

7

The Northern Pacific Challenger near the top of all time steam, but not that close to the top. ‘Only’ 107,000 lb TE compared to the other real contender’s 135,000 lbs and up.

8

Jim youve hit it on the head. E.W.King had his article on Big Boy or big mistake in Trains. Check that out for some insight to the Super power steam era. Give me a Y6 any day! Better yet I’ll just take my Heisler !

9

Y6b.

That is one engine that did the work that was necessary in the day.

There are many engines that contend for this title. I recall some previous threads pitting the Big Boy against other engines. But The PRR and the C&O fielded some engines that would be right up there in the “Big engine” catagory.

Keep in mind there are some such as the J1 2-10-4 used by the PRR is among the most powerful in terms of work capacity.

If I wanted to bring a powerful engine and improve on it (Imagine that) I pick the Y6b class. (I had to settle for a Y3 from LL because it already came with QSI… maybe we see Y6b in future hah?)

10

Where would B&O’s EM-1s fit into the picture?

11

The BIG BOY info is wrong. It never had close to 6000HP. To many thing s to consider. It was said to be able to pull a string of cars 5 miles long on a very flat piece of track. Also it wasn’t close to being the most powerfull steam engine. The Allegheny would have pulled out it’s coupler if attaches back to back. There was steam engines rated more then the Allegheny at TRACTIVE STARTING EFFORT but really never succeded. There were 2-8-8-8-0 and just about anything else you could think of.

http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/rr3.html

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/triplex/triplex.htm

12

The Triplexes were a miserable failure from what I understand because they couldn’t supply enough steam to keep the pressure up and pu***he drivers. As a result they never really went into real service for any prolonged period of time. So in my book they don’t count.

In terms of raw HP, it was the Alleghany at 7000. But it lost the race in tractive effort. Also the Alleghany’s never really reached their 7000 potential because they were speed limited by the coal drags they hauled.

13

The B&O EM’s were a ‘lighter’ version of the 2-8-8-4 at about 123,000 lb. TE., however they were quite successful in what they were designed for. But compare them to 140,000 lb. TE for the Missabe M3/4 and the NP Yellowstones, and you can see that there’s a disparity in sheer tractive effort. But they were certainly handsome locos, weren’t they?
As to the Missabe M3/4 Yellowstones, even though they were a locomotive designed by both Baldwin and the Missabe Road for a specific purpose (hauling long trains of ore cars at speed without helpers), remember that the Rio Grande borrowed these locomotives during the winters of WWII for use on their steep Rocky Mountain profiles, and it was related that the Rio Grande was so impressed by their sheer pulling performance, especially on the unforgiving 2% of their Moffat Line that at one time, the road was tempted to go to Baldwin for copies (however the road was already committed to EMD for diesels). Most powerful steam loco ever built? That’s conjecture, but the M3/4 series was right up there with the best of them.
Tom[:D]

PS: Aggro, where’d you find that Yellowstone to download? I’m drooling!!

14

I have read somewhere that the G.N class R2 2-8-8-2 had a starting TE of 150,000 lbs
True ? hard to say but definitly up there with pardon the pun…The Big Boys!
Now the U.P big Boys long stated to be the biggest is a bit deceiving as they were in fact not the biggest but the longest of the articulateds steamers. both the G.N R2s and the DM&IR M4s were more powerful.

15

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/largest.html

16

The C&O Allegheny had 7498 HP. More then any other Steam Engine. And it never really was put to good use by the C&O. It was used to haul heany coal drags. Now the 5300 HP Big Boy developed all of it’s HP at 40mph. One thing that is never really brought up is the Norfolk Y6B. It had more tractive effore at 25 mph the the Big Boy or Allegheny.

Y6B VS BIG BOY

WEIGHT 611,000---------772,250
STARTING TRACTIVE EFFORT 170,000LBS----------135,375LBS
HORSEPOWER 5300------------5300

17

Powerful implies output of power, and that equates to horsepower. THE winnah is the C&O Allegheny -VGN Blue Ridge 2-6-6-6.
For motive force, i.e. tractive effort, the winner in the “successful” reciprocating steam locomotive dept. is the VGN Class AE 2-10-10-2, followed by the N&W Y6b. I don’t think anyone could call either of these designs unsuccessful, looking at their histories.
Those are the only correct answers.

18

Hey there, Here’s some interesting info. Great Northern built at their own shops in 1929 ,at Hillyard,Washington the Class R-2, 2-8-8-2 steam engines. 119’ 11" over coupler faces—weight 621,000 pounds—436,000 pounds on the 63" drivers—153,000 pounds tractive effort. Designed for heavy freights on mountain grades. Source: page 54, Great Northern Steam & Electric in Color by David H. Hickcox. Publisher: Morning Sun Books, Inc. They lasted into the 1950’s when GN went full diesel ahead !
Ray--------------Great Northern fan.

19

One of the major factors with a steam locomotive, was the engineer and fireman.
Poor quality coal or an inexperienced fireman could ruin the overall performance of a steam locomotive. Another large factor was the condition of the engine relative to the last back shopping and the task the engine was being used for. Most of the railroads used different types of coal, usually what was available along their own route.

Aother concept is who you were talking to when this dicussion came up. Every road I visited thought they had the best steam engines ever made. Some would quote their particular class of engine and often, it was a 2-8-0 or 4-6-2 that was not relavant to the conversation. I did read David P. Morgan’s articles, the Editor of Trains Magazine during the last steam days, and he had some good ideas on this subject.

A steam locomotive was much better on flat land railroads than mountain types because the traffic effort needed to restart a train on a 1or 2% grade was beyond the effort of most steam locomotives without helpers. On a river level or flatland railroad, if an engineer could start a train, he could move it over the line in good order at a fairly high speed.

With diesels, a double switcher unit could be used to move a train that a texas or large steam engine had just brought in, but it could not move the train long distances at a fast pace.

The first four unit FT’s had about 240000 lbs of traffic effort and fifty four hundred horsepower, and broke draft gear fairly often according to the reports I have read.

20

Here are the top 10 big mammas of steam power ( ordered by HP)

  1. Pennsy’s 4-4-6-4 Q2 duplex (7897 Hp @ 57.4 m/h)
    [image]http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_prr6184.jpg[/image]
  2. 2-6-6-6 Allegheny (7500Hp @ 45m/h)
    [image]http://www.steamlocomotive.com/allegheny/vgn903.jpg[/image]
  3. Pennsy’s 6-4-4-6 S1 Duplex (7200 Hp @ 100 m/h)
    [image]http://www.toytrains1.com/images/trains/prr_6100.jpg[/image]
  4. Pennsy’s 6-4-6 S2 Turbine (6900 Hp)
    [image]http://www.challengerimports.com/images/products/prrs2short2pics.jpg[/image]
  5. 2-6-6-4 A-class (6800Hp @ 38m/h)
    [image]http://www.fineartmodels.com/img/model/futur/nwclassa/class_a1242.jpg[/image]
  6. 4-6-6-4 Challenger (6345 Hp @ 50m/h)
    [image]http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_wm1204.jpg[/image]
  7. 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone (6250 Hp @ 45 m/h)
    [image]http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_np5005.jpg[/image]
  8. UP’s 4-8-8-4 Big Boy (6000 Hp @ 35m/h)
    [image]http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_up4019.jpg[/image]
  9. SP’s 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward (6000 Hp @ 40m/h)
    [image]http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/sp4882/sp4102.jpg[/image]
  10. C&O’s 4-8-0-4-8-4 M-1 Steam Turbine (6000 Hp)
    [image]http://donross.railspot.com/dr0201/bl23.jpg[/image]