Will n and w 2-6-6-4 1218 be restored like the 611 as well? It only would make since to me cause they both ran together in the first steam program. If so how long will it take and will there be a fire up the 1218 campaign? If so will the new facility. Also he able to serve both of them?
I think the current management of N&W is rather set against ever reviving steam operations
Although not impossible, 1218 was the process of rebuilding when the program was terminated thus the rebuild was never completed, she is now quite incomplete missing major items such as tubes/flues. NS has no desire to revive the steam program although they appear willing to host visting steam.
Dave
Remember that the restoration of 611 for steam operation is the project of the Museum, and not NS, although NS is giving full cooperation. I agree 1218 should get the same treatment, because the NS A was and is another outstanding steam locomotive design. It can happen if after the 611 is restored, enough money is raised and donated to the Museum to do the job properly, probably double or triple the funds needed for 611.
It would be nice, but seriously, any steam-operating society will almost always have trouble running just one. Right now I would think the museum has it’s hands full with the 611. Operating any steam locomotive is a HUGE financial undertaking. I’m surprised the museum could afford to take both out for as long as they did. The 1218 was cosmetically restored after the program fell out from under here during her rebuild. Depending on how thorough the cosmetic restoration was, the locomotive may or may not be missing internal parts, i.e. flues, valves, compressors. It would be nice, but is unlikely to happen in the next few years.
Restoration of 1218 is possible, but it would take more money and effort than would the restoration of 611. Once 611 is restored and settled in operation, then the consideration might begin for the restoration of 1218. Keep in mind that the same dedicated donors and volunteers who have successfully brought 611 to restoration is needed for a projected effort for 1218. Without this, it would have never happened for 611 or could be considered for 1218. lois
It was my understanding that when the curtain fell in 1994 all the parts off 1218 were thrown in the tender, or loosely put back on, or in the case of the removed flues were shoved back in the boiler shell. As far I’ve heard nothing’s gone missing.
Hope springs eternal. So if I hit the “Powerball” this weekend…
If hit hit? You’ll bring back 1218? Man you would have a new best friend…
Remember ALS #12!
From what I heard, much work on the Tubes needs to be done, I heard no because it will cost way too much money
That’s not correct, it’s well documented what happened when the end came. Take what Steve Lee, the head of Union Pacific’s program at the time, wrote about it.
http://www.brucebharper.info/nwrwy/1218.html
Just ignore the nonsense where he essentially claims that Norfolk Southern did us a generous favor by not just scrapping her and had no right to be displeased in the slightest that she wasn’t left complete.
Well, we ARE lucky 1218 wasn’t scrapped altogether. With the mention of so much stuff being scraped, and the boiler an empty shell, if 1218 were restored, and all of the missing parts remade, how much of 1218 would still actually be original?
Well, Big Steve said it, so I guess that settles it.
Not sure if that’s sarcasm or not, but I assume he knows what he’s talking about and that this isn’t a fabrication that’s erroneously credited to him. I’ve seen others that have said similar things as well.
Would be great if this isn’t the case, but sadly, I think it’s safe to take this as fact. That said, I really doubt that they have the resources or will to restore both and keep them running even if she was in similar shape as the 611. Would be nice though if she was in a similar condition that they could perhaps trade off every 15 years while the other was down for repairs, maintenance, 15 year inspection, etc.
Would keep both in steam without the full impact in time, money, and other resources they’d face if they were to try to keep them going simultaneously. Union Pacific sort of does such a thing right now as seen by 844 disappearing from 1991-1996 for a running gear overhaul and then again after 1999 when 10 of her tubes failed for a boiler and firebox overhaul from late 2001 through the end of 2004.
But her size, extra complexity, and the state she was left in would make a return much more expensive than 611’s.
No, it wasn’t meant in sarcasm. In my opinion just about anything Steve Lee has to say about big steam can probably be taken as gospel. Others many disagree but considering how long he ran the UP steam program, and successfully at that, we can be sure he knows what he’s talking about.
The thing that strikes me though, and I’ve been wondering about this for years is, was there more than a bit of spite in the Norfolk-Southern management at the time (1994) when they cancelled the steam program? What I mean by this is not only did they end the program, they did everything humanly possible to make double-damn-sure it would NEVER come back. Closing the steam shop, selling off every piece of shop equipment they could make a dime on, selling off most of the passenger cars, and giving a command to the shop crew we used to call in the Marines “To the four winds, MARCH!”
Makes me think someone really detested the steam program and those responsible for keeping it going. You have to wonder, you know?
Firelock, I kinda think it was not so much hatred of the steam program itself as it was a bunch of accountants obsessed with the bottom line. After all, they love the dollar as much as or more than we love steam.
I would opine that it wasn’t so much from the finance department as it might have been from large shareholders who viewed the steam program as an expense that was reducing dividends.
Norfolk Southern earned record profits and was busier than ever. I doubt many noticed or cared about the cost of the steam program when this happened.
It was the legal team that did it in. After several well publicized incidents, growing insurance premiums, and the every increasing litigious nature of our society, they didn’t think it made sense when the program had been degraded to little more than a mere tourist operation giving train rides several dozen times a year with old locomotives frequently on busy mainlines that was offering little benefit to the corporation as a whole when put up against the risk.
That’s why keeping it tied in with loftier goals is so critical to a program like this. Lose sight of that and it won’t have long to live. Publicity, using it to help get messages out to the public like safety initiatives and the importance this industry has and will have in the future for the country, events for employees and dignitaries, tie-ins with community events, and so on is how a program like this best fits with a modern Class 1. That’s something that Union Pacific has been a master at and why their steam program has been around for over half a century.
And Norfolk Southern working with partners rather than sharing the brunt of the cost and responsibility themselves also helps. Beyond the contribution of some rolling stock from groups like NRHS chapters and some minor things, Southern and then Norfolk Southern pretty much went at it alone especially with the power itself.
Now, the burden is significantly less on NS than it was before.
Another thing to consider would be the fact that in comparing NS’s program to the UP’s one would realize that NS was running a lot…many many excursions per year where as the UP is very selective and only runs a few times per year. Increased cost, liability and the afore mentioned legal dept. and the end came swiftly.
Well boys, it just seemed fishy to me that the steam program was cancelled before Graham Claytor’s body was cold. It’s like they were waiting in the wings for Mr. Secretary to pass on so they could strike.
I just think it was more than a coincidence that the steam program died shortly after Graham Claytor did. Even retired, I think the “Old Man” must have been a formidable presence.
Well Mr. Connor, there’ll be a catch. It’ll have to have “Jersey Central Lines” with the Statue of Liberty herald painted on the tender!
Just kidding! However, not having purchased any new steam engines since 1930 the CNJ WAS considering buying articulated steam locomotives for freight service in 1946 before they decided to go diesel. We can only speculate what they might have looked like.