We spent six weeks in Oct and Nov at an RV Park near Canon City, CO right next US 50. I was surprised to see how many semis use that route. US 50 is one of the best east/west routes between I-70 out of Denver and I-40 in New Mexico. Between Pueblo and Salida US 50 is parallel to the ex-DRGW Tennessee Pass line which is out of service west of Parkdale. Many of the semis were from Swift trucking company. I know the conventional wisdom is that this line will never be reactivated since there is no longer a route across KS. But, my question is : How expensive will fuel have to get before someone thinks about putting these semis on a train even for a short route. I think of the example in Europe where they haul semis and cars on the train through a tunnel.
I can tell you one that would be interesting to try if you could get Volume to do it. California to Points east and Bypass Chicago on BNSF and NS. How could they do it simple they have a Interchange track here in Streator that they could just exchange the entire train and then bypass Chicago with. Maybe have a Block for Philladelphia one for NYC one for Washington on it. Coming West you could have blocks for LA area San Fran area and run it. Team schedulae for OTR your looking at 3 day service and that is hammering it all the way. Railroad would be 4 day so schedule it to leave each way WED arrive on Saturday for Monday Delivery.
Rt 50 across Colorado is called the Widowmaker by OTR Drivers for one reason Monarch pass 2 lane Nasty Switchbacks 7-8 Percent Grades that will make you go WTF did I take this road. West of where you stayed is were if gets NASTY in the deep rockies there are times those moutain roads are closed for Days and when they do open you better have Chains on everything on your Vechile I mean on your Drives trailer and Sterr axle if not your not going to Survive it.
To compete with truckload, intermodal requires consistent, high volumes, moving between a very limited number of origin-destination pairs, a fairly long distance. Where are the high volumes on this route moving between limited O-D pairs a long way apart? What is typically seen on the highway is the aggregate of a very large number of O-D pairs moving past a single common point, in god-knows-what kind of consistency, and many of those boxes are only traveling 100-200 miles total.
If you can identify 100 boxes moving loaded both ways between a single O-D pair more than 800 miles apart, there might be a intermodal service potential in that lane. The only major shipper or group of shippers I can think of in that lane that might consider intermodal are the box beef companies in the Garden City, Kansas, area. They might generate that kind of volume westward every day, but it scatters to several hundred destinations. If you reached further east than Garden City, you start falling into the capture radius of Kansas City, which means the boxes that are intermodal susceptible are
[quote user=“Railway Man”]
bedell:
We spent six weeks in Oct and Nov at an RV Park near Canon City, CO right next US 50. I was surprised to see how many semis use that route. US 50 is one of the best east/west routes between I-70 out of Denver and I-40 in New Mexico. Between Pueblo and Salida US 50 is parallel to the ex-DRGW Tennessee Pass line which is out of service west of Parkdale. Many of the semis were from Swift trucking company. I know the conventional wisdom is that this line will never be reactivated since there is no longer a route across KS. But, my question is : How expensive will fuel have to get before someone thinks about putting these semis on a train even for a short route. I think of the example in Europe where they haul semis and cars on the train through a tunnel.
To compete with truckload, intermodal requires consistent, high volumes, moving between a very limited number of origin-destination pairs, a fairly long distance. Where are the high volumes on this route moving between limited O-D pairs a long way apart? What is typically seen on the highway is the aggregate of a very large number of O-D pairs moving past a single common point, in god-knows-what kind of consistency, and many of those boxes are only traveling 100-200 miles total.
If you can identify 100 boxes moving loaded both ways between a single O-D pair more than 800 miles apart, there might be a intermodal service potential in that lane. The only major shipper or group of shippers I can think of in that lane that might consider intermodal are the box beef companies in the Garden City, Kansas, area. They might generate that kind of volume westward every day, but it scatters to several hundre
You are mischaracterizing the IAIS service. It’s not what I suspect you think it is. Because I do railroading for a living, I’m not in a position to comment on specific corridors, markets, and routes. If you want to know more about it, perhaps others that are more free to comment can fill you in on the origins and destinations IAIS offers, the rates, service frequencies, and box availability.
You assert that railroads are overlooking the opportunity of mixing intermodal with manifest. I don’t think you understand the economics of intermodal, or the specific manner in which IAIS functions in the intermodal business. IAIS is an unusual situation and what they are doing is not applicable to most lanes.
There are always exceptions to generalities. (I offered the generalities above). The generalities tell you the broad, likely opportunities. The exceptions tell you the narrow, unlikely opportunities. Chasing the exceptions is not what I do for a living, unless I don’t want to have a living, because very few exceptions will turn into a sustainable reality. The generalities I cited above explain the economic underpinnings of more than 99% of the intermodal business west of Chicago. The
From Bedell’s Original post:
“…We spent six weeks in Oct and Nov at an RV Park near Canon City, CO right next US 50. I was surprised to see how many semis use that route. US 50 is one of the best east/west routes between I-70 out of Denver and I-40 in New Mexico. Between Pueblo and Salida US 50 is parallel to the ex-DRGW Tennessee Pass line which is out of service west of Parkdale. Many of the semis were from Swift trucking company. …”
The comment about Swift Trucking caught my eye. Why would they send a large number of trucks over such a problematic route? Iy is approximately 830, or so miles between Phoenix, Az. Their corporate HQ and a terminal in Denver. They do operate a driver training facility at their Denver corporate facilities, and they may use that route (across US 50/Monarch Pass) as a function of training new drivers (?) that is just a pure guess on my part. In this day and time of companies in all areas of business being so RISK Adverse in their Operations, I am amazed that that route would be utilized. Sure, going a more circuiteous route would increase their costs exponentially, the risk of a potential accident over that mountainous stretch would certainly increase their exposure to the risk of a very expensive and costly to their bottom line problematic.
I would absolutely defer to Railwayman’s assessment of the potential for a new intermodal route through there.
[quote user=“Railway Man”]
Mr. Railman:
Not always true with the long distances. IAIS (Iowa Interstate) Hauls intermodal stacks with their manifest between Blue Island and Council Bluffs, only about 423 miles (measured from Blue Island junction to what I think is the IAIS terminal). i think railroads and people are kind of forgetting about how Piggyback trains can be mixed in with manifests. IAIS is really the only railroad I’ve seen in a long time utilize this feature. Even if they just moved one manifest with intermodal applied, it’d make a huge inpact on US 50
You are mischaracterizing the IAIS service. It’s not what I suspect you think it is. Because I do railroading for a living, I’m not in a position to comment on specific corridors, markets, and routes. If you want to know more about it, perhaps others that are more free to comment can fill you in on the origins and destinations IAIS offers, the rates, service frequencies, and box availability.
You assert that railroads are overlooking the opportunity of mixing intermodal with manifest. I don’t think you understand the economics of intermodal, or the specific manner in which IAIS functions in the intermodal business. IAIS is an unusual situation and what they are doing is not applicable to most lanes.
There are always exceptions to generalities. (I offered the generalities above). The generalities tell you the broad, likely opportunities. The exceptions tell you the narrow, unlikely opportunities. Chasing the exceptions is not what I do for a living, unless I don’t want to have a living, because very few exceptio
http://www.iaisrr.com/intermodal.htm
IAIS intermodal information. The site still says three ramps, but only lists two. This is because the third ramp at Newton, IA closed some time back. That was after Whirlpool closed the Maytag factory.
At one time there was also a fourth ramp at West Liberty, IA. It’s been gone for quite a while now too.
Jeff
How long does it take to get a semi trailer loaded & secured on a flat car? Would offloading be about the same? What equipment is used to do that & how expensive is it?
You plop it on with a piggybacker or crane and lock the hitch. Unloading is just a simple. Takes a minute or two per box. Piggypackers and cranes are mucho dinero. Gotta keep’em busy to make them pay for themselves.
The laws of physics conspire against intermodal on mountain grades. It takes the same amount of energy to get the box from the bottom of the hill to the top regardless of mode. And, at lower speeds the savings in aero drag on the train vs. a bunch of trucks isn’t as impressive, either. You do save on rolling resistance, but as a percentage of total fuel, the fuel needed to raise the box up to the top of the pass swamps the other areas.
Last few times we drove to Portland, OR, there was a constant stream of Walmart trucks moving east on I-84. This is territory where you’d think BNSF and UP on either side of the Columbia River would have more of that business, but as it turns out these trucks shuttle to and from a large inland regional warehouse near Hermiston, OR. This facility, I’ve been told, serves Walmart stores up my way around Spokane, WA, and northern ID, as well as down southeast to Boise, Pocatello, SLC, etc.
Per what RWM said earlier, the short hauls between this hub and the major cities/seaports to the west, and between this hub and the local endpoints to the east, makes trucking more practical than rail here. When the haul is longer, like Northwest perishables destined for the Northeast, then you can open a reefer facility at Wallula, WA, or a container dock at Quincy, WA, and get some of that truck traffic back.
But when it comes to getting more of that truck traffic that’s still bringing overseas merchandise out of the port, it will take a regional, inland intermodal facility like the one that has been proposed for southern Idaho. The commerce people in Puget Sound have been very outspoken about wanting some way to get inbound containers hurried east (hence their insistence that BNSF enlarge Stampede Tunnel) to somewhere further inland, where there’s more room to sort and stage boxes before they’re needed at their final destination. Not a new idea by any means; similar methods can already be found elsewhere. Just one example of what it takes for railroads to compete in intermodal, assuming the specific area has enough business to make the investment in facilities and service worthwhile.
but intermodal saves a huge amount in labor which must somehow show up in overall efficiency… 180 containers over the road involves 180 drivers verses an engineer and a conductor on the railroad.
Bruce most of those Walmart Trucks are doing MUltiple Stops. They might have 4-5 Stops on each Trailer. Idoubt a train will have Ramps in each little town they needed to go into. Also Swift is a Huge Outside Contractor for Wal-Mart in the Meat Delivery side they could have been going to all the Wal-Marts that are on Rt-50 so the Same thing exsists there. I asked a close friend of mine she and her Husband are on a Dedicated Team for Wal-Mart for Swift all they Pull is Meat from the Packing Plants to the DC’s and then on the way back to the Plants they haul meat to the Stores. They are always on 50. She asked me how to handle Monarch in the winter I told HAVE FUN and also have some tweezers handy incase you need to remove seat cushion from your butt if you suck it up.
OK. I pretty much do not agree. Respectfully, of course. (But I do agree that watching a bunch 'O trucks go by is no way to identify market potential.)
I’ve handled some tough assignments in my life, but identifying a 800+ mile long lane, with 100 perfectly balanced loads in each direction, serving only two origin/destination locations; well, that would be one of the toughest. Those service lanes are few and far between. So if that’s what it takes we just as well give up now and leave that meat from SW Kansas to truck on down the highway.
'Course, I think there’s a
RE: “Railway Man’s” post
Fascinating. Thank you.
Yet another scheme to reopen the Tennessee Pass Line. It seems like there’s one a month.
I defer to Railwayman for his excepllent discussion of intermodal trafffic and strategy. To that, I would simply add that the possibility that short haul intermodal traffic could ever justify a reopening of the Tennessee Pass line is about as likely as dirigibles becomiing a viable transport
Greyhounds, you’ve done it again. Excellent work!
I guess what I don’t get is why BNSF doesn’t have intermodal traffic in the Denver - Southern California lane?
THAT is a pretty interesting proposal exercise! [2c]
That SW corner of Kansas has UPRR Right through it, not to mention BNSF just South of it as well.
Congrat! Greyhounds