[NOTE: Earlier today I had posted this topic on the “Locomotive” Discusion Group area; I have reposted it here, at a pont that may be more appropriate for this Thread.]
It was set out for the pick-up to be transferred to Union Pacific and then Norfolk Southern for the transfer move. So far Nada?
Does anyone have any photos of the move they could link to on this Forum or any information if the N&W #2156 has gotten to Roanoke, or is it still in route?
Been watching the Virginia Museum of Transportation website, they have posted lots of information on the progress on #611,[Terrific stuff! ]
The Y6a is truely a historic locomotive! And Norfolk and Western approached the concept of a “Mallet compound” engine in the 1950’s as legitimate engineering idea and then transformed it into a workable locomotive design. Wow no such engines were produced new in America after 1935! This is truely as remarkable as the rest of the world basically abandon the Mallet compound as a modern locomotive. And that N&W had such engineering success here is astounding - this is an untold story.
Compounding of course is an economy idea in steam locomotive design. For example most marine steam engines of the last century were “compounded” to increase their efficiency. Basically the steam was used three times in a “high pressure cylinder” - then exhausted into a “medium pressure cylinder” - and finally used one last in a “low pressure cylinder.” Efficiency! The pistons of each cylinder were of course all of different diameters in order to achieve a similar power stroke input from each of the three. This marine power design was called the Tripple Compound “A” Frame Steam Engine - and powered most ships through the 20th Century.
The steam engineering idea here was to extract ALL of the heat energy from the steam before giving it up to the atmosphere. “Compounding” was an idea from the past as it never proved practical on a railroad engine and so it quickly fell out of favor with the advent of the concept of “superheated steam” where so much more efficiency is available at much less cost.
Where “compound” steam engines were built - engine designs then became “simple.” Simple locomotives" using high pressure steam only.
Almost all of the great articulated railroad locomotive power of the late steam era was “simple.” The N&W A-series engines like the 2-6-6-4 steam were "simple&qu
Which is why I am so sad to see 2156 leave.I don’t travel much, so it will likely be 5-6 years before I see her again.
Unfortuantly around here, there would be more interest in restoring Frisco 1522 to operation, since we miss her, and she’s in such good mechanicl condition.
I feel that trying the restore 2156, well perfectly possible, is unlikely to be done, even to run around the St. Louis area. This discusion, of course, is much more complicated than this. I am at the museum often as a volunteer, and I once had a man come from India just to see the 2156 alone. There is no doubt about passion for the locomotive, so while she may not run anytime soon, I would not doubt it happening… One day.
(My views expressed in this post represent the MoT in no way whatsoever.)
"N&W 2156 " Posted by BigJim on Thurs. May 29, 2014 4:50am
May 28, 2014
St. Louis Museum of Transportation and Virginia Museum of Transportation to trade historic locomotives
NORFOLK, VA. – The Museum of Transportation, St. Louis, and the Virginia Museum of Transportation are in discussions to bring Norfolk and Western Y6a steam engine #2156, currently in the St. Louis museum, back to its place of origin at Roanoke, Va., on a five-year loan for display at the Virginia museum, in a transaction facilitated by Norfolk Southern.
In exchange, the Virginia museum will send to St. Louis a Southern Railway diesel General Motors EMD FTB unit to complement the St. Louis museum’s FTA demonstration unit.
“This will reunite the last surviving Y-class locomotive, one of the hardest pulling steam locomotives ever built, with the J-611 and the A-1218 in Roanoke, where all three were designed and built by Norfolk and Western,” said Molly Butterworth, cultural site manager for the St. Louis Museum of Transportation. ”In return, our historic
I believed that they were never going to run Big Boy UP 4023 - I believed it was just a matter of time in 1970 before Union Pacific quit its steam program - no one would be interested in utilitarian old railroad locomotives - no one in their right mind - no railroad could afford it - ask President Al Pearlman! cause New York Central was way ahead of the game.
And I believed they were never going to run N&W 611 - or 1214 - its why they only saved one!
And that they are never going to run NYC 3001 - Mayor of Elkhart be damned! - yah I believe that.
And I believed they were never going to the moon again too! - and surely, that they were never going to Mars - all that money was needed to solve domestic issues here in America - and of course we never would have a black president or woman either! - I believe that I really did!
And I believed they were never going to build an another new roundhouse in Amercia - or another turntable. And that when PM 1225 was on display at Michigan State University - I believed it would never run again! - the faculty told us so and students saw it as true - its why they cut it loose from the university - for insurance liability - they rolled their eyes - or was it a smile - they did - they really did. I believe that.
And I believed the British railfans could not build a brand new steam locomotive from scratch - certainly not a 4-6-2 Pacific - three cylinders? - your joking! - it was too difficult and would be easier for them to get it made in China - yah I really believed that!
Yes I believe that I really do - never again going to run a C&O 2-6-6-6. Never going to run C&O 1309 - Baldwins last domestic order - who would want to - did you see that wreck of a locomotive sitting outside in the rain for fifty years!
Medically, I believed patients could not get well from incurable diseases and those not seriously ill would always be well - I believed that I really did! &
I believed that they were never going to run Big Boy UP 4023 - I believed it was just a matter of time in 1970 before Union Pacific quit its steam program - no one would be interested in utilitarian old railroad locomotives - no one in their right mind - no railroad could afford it - ask President Al Pearlman! cause New York Central was way ahead of the game.
And I believed they were never going to run N&W 611 - or 1214 - its why they only saved one!
And that they are never going to run NYC 3001 - Mayor of Elkhart be damned! - yah I believe that.
And I believed they were never going to the moon again too! - and surely, that they were never going to Mars - all that money was needed to solve domestic issues here in America - and of course we never would have a black president or woman either! - I believe that I really did!
And I believed they were never going to build an another new roundhouse in Amercia - or another turntable. And that when PM 1225 was on display at Michigan State University - I believed it would never run again! - the faculty told us so and students saw it as true - its why they cut it loose from the university - for insurance liability - they rolled their eyes - or was it a smile - they did - they really did. I believe that.
And I believed the British railfans could not build a brand new steam locomotive from scratch - certainly not a 4-6-2 Pacific - three cylinders? - your joking! - it was too difficult and would be easier for them to get it made in China - yah I really believed that!
Yes I believe that I really do - never again going to run a C&O 2-6-6-6. Never going to run C&O 1309 - Baldwins last domestic order - who would want to - did you see that wreck of a locomotive sitting outside in the rain for fifty years!
Medically, I believed patients could not get well from incurable diseases and those not seriously ill would always be
My view is that while 2156 will not run today, tomorrow, or the day after, it will run, one day. It may not be soon, but it is coming. That is what I expressed in my earlier post but everything you say is undoubtably true. I know that so long is there is a willing group, anything is possible. But, like everything, it is a waiting game, waiting for the right time.
About the NYC #3329-
The museum is nearing the end of a (so far) 9 year long cosmetic restoration on her. and boy, have the guys in the shop can sure work miracles.
They know what they have there in the 2933, and thats why she’s getting such good treatment.
I would bet against N&W 2156 ever running again for a variety of reasons. Since it has been sitting in the elements in St. Louis for a long time, the boiler and machinery are probably in pretty poor shape. Money for such a job is in pretty short supply, don’t expect NS to fund it. 2156 is a large, heavy low-speed articulated, it may not have a lot of available trackage on which to run. The skills and experience available to rebuild, maintain and operate it are getting harder to find every day.
Remember, if it wasn’t for the largesse of UP, a certain 4-8-8-4 would still be sitting in Pomona.
I’m not going to get into an argument over whether the 2156 will ever run again. Quite frankly, I doubt it will ever happen. But, I have been surprised before.
However, I will argue this point. The Y6 class was not as slow as many want to believe. And, unless the speed limit rules for steam engines have relaxed, I have no doubt that it could easily pull an excursion train at the 40mph and out pull a Big Boy. As for trackage to run on, the Y’s went everywhere, so I don’t think there would be any problem running anywhere anyone would want to go.
Will 2156 ever run again? Only if UP or a rich civilian buys her, otherwise, youd be a laughing stock to think NS would have anything to do with it! Personally, I would love to see it happen. Realistically, it wont.
Big Jim - Im quite sure too a Y6-b can haul at 40mph. No matter whats behind her! But out pulling a Big Boy will never happen. Good pullers, but not that good. If they were Y6-c’s then yes. But then, theyd just update the Big Boy and were back at square one again.
Dr D - Alot of things I believed too. To this day, Im still right! [(-D]
SamFP1943 - Loved reading the article you qouted. However, the part - “… in a transaction facilitated by Norfolk Southern.” is very highly suspect.
NS doesnt do steam. And are very reluctant 611 is coming back. Only the museum and 611 followers (bless them one and all!!) are carrying this torch. If NS owned 611, she’d have been scrapped when NS killed steam the last time around. I feel for the museum being stuck in NS territory. Or any other steam operator that wants to run on the east coast’s class 1 rails.
Such a fine example of the Northern class loco too, tis a shame her true prowess will never be known by any of todays generation.
While I am not a member of today’s generation, I do not feel that I’ve missed too much by the non-operation of N&W 611. What I do miss is a set of FP45’s on an 18-car Super Chief/El Capitan or a trio of SW7’s lugging their guts out on a trainload of steel coils on the IHB.
Well, all you have to do is check the tonnage ratings between the two. And, despite what Robert LeMassena had to say, there never was a Y6c. They were referred to as “Improved”. And all Y5 - Y6b classes were “Improved”, including 2156.
The Y6-“c” designation ‘would have’ been the class given to the Y6’s that would eventually have recieved the “improvement” to distinguish them from other unimproved Y6s by the Mech. dept… I used this term as reference only because the general reader has heard of it. Messena had nothing to do with it.
True, the class didnt exist only because development stopped after one Y6, and one Class A (hello diesels). No other locos recieved the ‘improvement’. I have never seen any documentation of a Y5 getting the ‘improvement’, nor heard of it otherwise.
I have looked at the tonnage ratings. Big Boys regularly pulled more tonnage than Y6’s. I am not doubting the Y6 class, the BB’s frankly just out pulled them. Not by much, but there is enough difference to make a judgement.
I’m confused. I never heard of a Y-6c until I read this thread, and I suspect N&W never heard of it either. Maybe somebody can enlighten me. I understand N&W had some proposals for a larger 2-8-8-2, which would have ridden on taller drivers & had a larger boiler. Logic says it would have been a Y-7 if it had ever existed — but it didn’t.
Came close, though – many of the drawings for it were completed and still exist in the NWHS archives. But that was to be a simple articulated, not a compound.
I’m hoping that Feltonhill will weigh in here with the ‘official’ viewpoint, but I have never thought that there was an actual “Y6c” class – and I have always believed that the term was of LeMassena’s imagining. There is, of course, no reason why a class can’t consist of a single locomotive – the NYC S2a is enough proof of that – but as noted, the substantial ‘improvements’ were subsequently applied across construction classes, which retained their original type numbers ‘as improved’. That is why nobody argues that 2156 is a Y6a, even though her new firebox says otherwise. It would have been perfectly feasible for N&W to reclass the 2-8-8-2s into a new representative class (call it “Y6c” for argument if roller bearings and the various mods for ease of maintenance were consistently applied to all the power being improved) but I think it is easy to show that that was not done… and if the railroad didn’t call it a Y6c, there really isn’t much point in us trying to call it that.
Of course, if someone can produce actual drawings labeled Y6c, I’ll happily stand corrected.
