Old brass

Mr. T White says the TRUTH! [tup]

It’s not just Brass, in O-Gauge, it is all too common to find things, Locomotives in particular, that have never been out of the display case, or even worse the Box. Something just not right, even kind of sad, when something like that gets banished forever to it’s box never to run, as they were meant too.

It has been to my advantage on occasion though. TWhite, do you remember me mentioning, that Lionel JLC series H-7 2-8-8-2, that was on my “Someday I’m gonna get me one of those” list? Well, monday night on ebay, I won it, 2004 release, and according to the seller, Never out of the box, the box has never been opened. Original MSRP $1649.99, my ebay find $885.00 + $25.99 shipping/insured.

From the Lionel catalog

I hope that it really has never been out of the box, I don’t know that I will wait to get home from the UPS Store to check it out, been drooling a long time thinking about it. It wont see the inside of it’s box much in the future.

Doug

Doug

Doug–

I remember our conversation about that beautiful loco. Glad you got it, and I hope it runs just as beautifully as it looks. I’m sure it will. And yes, I agree–some Lionel collectors are just like old brass collectors: “Look at what I’VE got.” “Nice. How does it run?” “Don’t know, it’s never been out of the box.”

Eh?[%-)]

Tom [:D]

A friend of mine is the authorized Lionel repair guy for the area shops. One day a guy shows him a Lionel box ( unopened of course) with some stains on the outside. The guy is concerned because these are very collectible diesels, read valuable,inside the box. My friend laughs and tells him to dump them! Seems that Lionel packed these 1950s/60s with D cell batteries for the horn. Batteries leak havoc.

On the other hand, I have a 1950s baseball card collection which I can only wish was in excellent condition. I played with them and they not only show the signs of play,but decreased value.

Play with your toys and enjoy them. My brass helps deliver on time performance when called upon to do so. Some are even (on no Mr. Bill [:O]) heavily weathered.

D and LW:

Good on you! [bow]

Tom [:D]

I got my first old brass today. It’s a B&O B-18. I haven’t run it much yet, but I don’t intend to let it get dusty on a shelf. Here’s a pic of it on the kitchen table.

When it arrived I couldn’t get it to run on the test track I set up. I thought there must be a loose wire in the loco. It turns out that one of the wires from the track to the power pack wasn’t attached. [D)]

Chad–

At least you didn’t panic and tear the loco apart to see what was the matter immediately (as I have done on two occasions–one was a disconnected wire to the power pack like you, the other was forgetting to turn the power pack ON [D)]).

That’s a sweet-looking Ten-Wheeler. Hope it gives you a lot of pleasure.

Tom [:D]

I dont own brass, but my grandpa does, quite alot of it too. Most of it me and my dad will inheirit, but that wont be more quite a while.

But heres some pictures.

IMG_2681 by you.

IMG_2684 by you.

Tjsingle

Should I PM or email my address?

Give me 30 years to run out my time on this planet, then watch for A UW alumnus estate auction (my alma matter gets the whole shootin’ match when I kick the bucket, as long as they scatter my ashes on prexey’s pasture). I assure you that loco will still have no wheel wear, but it will have brought me decades of pleasure, just like my Nolan Ryan and Hank Aaron autographed baseballs.

The part I like best is the hand made draw bar. I understand that Linn was pretty picky about getting the tender the correct distance from the loco, so I assume that the drawbar was his own work. On tight curves, the tender touches the cab and shorts out my layout, but it does look right. A bit of tape under the cab roof would resolve the shorting issue.

I would run it, but it’s a switcher yet it is the largest loco I own - the rest are 20 ton Shays, a Heisler, 3 slide-valve moguls, an american, a few 0-4-0s, a forney, and a columbia. They are all 1890s era locos (except for the Heisler). This 0-6-0 is representative of a more recent era (it’s bigger and has no resemblance to an espresso machine like the others); it looks out of place on the layout, so I just let it beautify my train room. I must admit, it runs very nice (you have something to look forward to).

My Dad bought a big whack of brass in the 70s because the price was right. All of it is now at my house, and guilty as charged, most of it (not all) remains safely boxed and stored. I take them out from time to time - there’s a PFM 2-6-6-2 that runs beautifully, as does an Akane 2-8-2 Light. The box for the Akane is fascinating - its lid has the date of production (July 27, 1963) as well as the signatures of the QC staff.

The problem is that many of them do not run well, and I admit that I’m a bit intimidated by the thought of tearing them down beyond doing a simple lubrication exercise. I want to eventually get them re-motored and I’ll paint them myself, but when I asked the LHS they told me they have a guy who can re-motor these babies but that good can motors are hard to find - I think he told me Mabuchi went out of business. Is NWSL the best option? Cheers.

Anyone else remember that letter in MR (I think) where the writer suggested leaving the motors out of the brass locomotives 'cause they just raised the price, and he didn’t want to pay for a motor he wasn’t ever going to use?

Going a step farther, why not buy just the box if you’re only going to leave the loco inside and never take it out? You’ll get the same cool effect up in your closet and save a lot of money, too. Also, the shelf won’t bow down so much.

I’ll admit to having locos tucked away way too long, but my intent (or fantasy) is to have every one of them running. Someday. I hope. So I’ll be needing the motors, thank you very much.

Ed

RRcanuck–

Actually, the NWSL cans have a lot of ‘oomph’ to them and are very controllable throughout the speed range. Re-motoring a brass loco is not a very difficult job (I’ve done my share, believe me!), and brass itself is VERY forgiving to work on. And NWSL makes a large variety of motors that will fit almost any brass loco with very minor adjusting. I’ve found out that if the loco itself has a sturdy mechanism (and Akane for one, was famous for their sturdy mechanisms) that re-motoring is not a difficult process at all.

It would be worth looking into, especially if you have a group of older Japanese brass locos–they were built like TANKS for the most part, and would give you a lot of running pleasure with new motors.

Just my thoughts.

Tom [:D]

Tom, thanks for the advice.

After reading this post I went and did an “inventory check”. Other than brass I’ve bought myself, or other brass that I run fairly regularly, the stuff left to me includes 5 Van Hobbies / Samhongsa (all CPR), 1 GEM, 2 Nickel Plate, 1 HCB / AHM, and 1 Olympia. That doesn’t include diesels. It’s a combination of Japan and Korea.

Having never done motor swap-outs before, given this many units I assume this amounts to a LOT of work, and since I spend half my time in Asia, time is something I don’t have a lot of. Oh well, I guess I’ll pick one and give it a try…even a journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step, as they say.

On the other hand, if someone wants to do this for me and get paid in brass…

Cheers.

Me too. My first locomotive, a brass RS2 painted in CP maroon and yellow. Old Alco Models. Re-trucked AND re-motered with Atlas/Kato parts. Well worth it.

And my Sierra has a new drive/motor as well. I have no issues doing this as I expect these expensive things to work.

Now if I could find a decent drive for my GMD1 (A1A version) [sigh]

RRCanuck–

What I do, if I’m going to re-motor a brass loco is disassemble the boiler mounting from the frame, then take both to my LHS and peruse the NWSL’s to make sure that they’ll fit (especially if the boiler has backhead detail). When I find the appropriate motor, I mount it with silicone gel, which isolates the motor from the frame (and makes it DCC ready, I understand, even though I’m strictly DC, myself) and after connecting the tender lead, find a place on the loco frame to solder the loco connection. I use either neoprene tubing or the appropriate diameter NWSL universals for the connection to the gearbox.

I notice that one of your locos is a PFM Sierra Mallet, which because of the exposed double-gearing between the motor and the PFM gearbox (common to all of the PFM articulateds), means that the whole thing has to be dis-assembled and re-built, something I’ve frankly been afraid to try. NWSL makes new enclosed reduction gearboxes for PFM’s, but it entails removing the original worm from the drivers and replacing it, then re-installing and re-quartering the drivers. A bit much for me to try. I’ve got 3 PFM articulateds, 2 Rio Grande 2-8-8-2’s and one ex-Salt Lake 2-6-6-0. What I’ve done instead, is ‘renew’ the original open frame motors by cleaning them with alcohol and a soft toothbrush, and then installing Tomar track-shoes on the loco and tender for improved pickup. It makes my PFM’s run very nicely, if still a little ‘noisy’ from those exposed gears. Actually, ALL of my brass have the Tomar’s installed, can motors or not. Makes for a much smoother running loco.

That’s one beautiful PFM Mallet in your photo, on WPF. Isn’t steam FUN? [:P]

Oh, and just another thought on that perculiar PFM articulated drive–if you want to install a new can motor and NWSL gearbox, I’d have it professi

I’ve become a big fan of coreless motors with inline reduction gearboxes. These motors work like a flywheel when power is cut (no more stalls), and the reduction gears can make them more torquey (is that a word?) and give your loco a top speed like the prototype. I have this setup in a shay and a mogul - the shay tops out at 12 scale mph and it will run so slow that seconds pass between ties. The Mogul will creep so slowly I can count the spokes on the drivers, and it tops at a scale 25 mph.

On eBay there’s a guy who sells these setups. Find his listings and send him an e-mail. He’ll create a motor gearbox setup that is just the right size and speed for your needs.

One last thing. Never throw away a “dead” electronic device without looking for coreless motors inside. I found a little motor in a dead camera; it is now running my railbus. It is a 6v motor so I had to put a resistor in series with it, but it is doing the job perfectly. This little thing is about the diameter of a pencil eraser and it’s just over 1/2 inch long.

VCRs and camcorders are full of little motors, too.

I’ve heard the concerns that these motors overheat. All I can say is I’ve never had the problem.

NWSL has Hi-Lo gearboxes especially designed for articulateds, although many installations require that the axle gears be installed on axles other than those used with the factory set-up. Their Quarterer is a useful tool if you have to change axle gears, although it’s generally not a difficult task, even when doing it “by eye”.

Some brass locos have very good-quality gears, while others are junk. Probably the trickiest re-gear/re-motor that I’ve done was this Samhongsa B&M Mogul.

With the narrow firebox, I had to mount the motor in the boiler, then use tweezers to line-up the driveshafts as the superstructure was assembled to the chassis. She’s a real sweet runner now, and pulls surprisingly well for a small loco. I had a similar situation when remotoring a pair of CPR D-10s for a friend (I’ve probably remotored about 30 or 40 brass locos for him because, as he says: “If it doesn’t run, I don’t want it!”). These locos also had narrow fireboxes, so I ended up converting them to tender drives. With extra weight in the boilers, and bearing blocks installed on the tender frame, above the truck sideframes, they’re strong pullers and smooth runners.

Wayne

Dr. Wayne:

I wish you lived next door, LOL! [:P]

Tom [bow]

Thanks, Tom - I’d probably enjoy that, too. [swg]

Wayne