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Classic Trains General Discussion
2121

G’day Guys!

Well, apparently the Fallen Flags idea has struck a chord … so here’s another from Classic American Railroads:

Missouri Pacific

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Route mileage in 1950: 9,700

Locomotive fleet in 1963: Diesel: 724

Rolling stock in 1950:

Freight cars: 44.923 Passenger cars: 533

Principal lines in 1950:

St. Louis-Sedalia-Kansas City, MO-Omaha, NE
Jefferson City-Boonville-Kansas City
St. Joseph, MO-Stockton, KS
Kansas City-Pueblo, CO
Osawatomie, KS-Wagoner, OK-North Litle Rock, AR
Pleasant Hill, MO-Wichita-Geneseo, KS
Fort Scott-Larned, KS
Rich Hill-Joplin, MO
Carthage, MO-Diaz, AR
St. Louis-Little Rock, AR-Texarkana, TX
East St. Louis, IL-Poplar Bluff, MO
Bismark, MO-Salem, IL
Bald Knob, AR-Memphis, Tn
Little Rock-McGehee, AR-Lake Charles, LA
Memphis-McGehee
McGehee-Vidalia, LA
Pine Bluff-Hot Springs, AR
Gurdon, AR-Clayton, LA
Longview-Laredo, TX
Palestine-Galveston, TX
Brownsville, TX-Baton Rouge, LA-New Orleans
New Orleans-Donaldson-Alexandria, LA
Forth Worth-Spring (Houston), TX
San Antonio-Corpus Christi, TX
El Paso-Longview, TX-Livonia, LA-New Orleans (T&P)
Fort Worth, TX-Cypress, LA, via Texarkana & Marthaville, LA (T&P)
Texarkana-Longview (T&P)

Passenger Trains:

Aztec Eagle (San Antonio-Mexico City)
Colorado Eagle (St, Louis-Denver)
Houstonian (New Orleans-Houston)
Louisiana Sunshine Special (Little Rock-Lake Charles)
Missouri River Eagle (St. Louis-Omaha)
Missourian (St. Louis-Kansas City and Witchita)
Orleanean (Houston-New Orleans)
Ozarker (St. Louis-Little Rock)
Pioneer (Houston-Brownsville)
Rainbow Special (Kansas City-Li

2122

HI TOM, and the gang.
OJ please. Nice work Tom with the listings of fallen flags specs. Can you do the same with the WP name trains? I’d appreciate it since I’m modeling WP in the fifties.
CHRIS

2123

CONTEST

We now know the order of Posts amongst the Regulars, but how many does the Proprietor have thru Page 100[?] Take a crack at that one …….

Shouldn’t be too hard to wager a guess from the statistics given in Today’s SUMMARY. To help you compute the number, there were 42 Posts from people who were not listed in the SUMMARY.

At least six customers must participate in order for the Prize to be awarded. Prize will be announced on Friday, along with the winner! [;)]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2124

Hi Chris

Missed seeing you around here lately … seen your cyber name pop up quite often, but not you! Geesh!

I’ll look into the Western Pacific and see what I can put together for you and the guys who have interest in this Fallen Flag idea of mine.

OJ [?] Can’t survive on OJ - either YOU or the bar! Good Gawd Gertie - what ever happened to the drinking man [?] Lost, lost, lost - gone the way of everything else, I suppose. Even cyber booze is somehow taboo. [tdn] Oh well, check the fridge - should be plenty of OJ in there …

Catch ya later! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2125

Hello everyone. Tom, a cold house draught, please. I’ll walk over to the jukebox and punch C5 and go from there. Tom, my favorite locomotive to run on the Midland is a New York Central RS3 painted in the lightning stripe scheme. It still has the remains of the steam generator in the short hood–something in there rolls around like a bowling ball at certain speeds!!! One of the cylinders needs gone thru so she has’nt ran this season so I am seriously having withdrawals as she is a barrel of fun to run.
I liked the Mop listing for the fallen flags. Mop was the underdog in Springfield as it was the end of a branch from Crane. When I was a wee lad, Mop kept 2 geeps and a endcab switcher here. The geeps would take the freight of evenings to Crane and the SW would work days switching. Around 1975 or so, the federal govt made Mop abandon its branch so theline was torn up and the freight went out on the Frisco to Aurora, which is what BNSF does for M&NA today. Mop’s Bicentennial geeps made an appearance in town wearing their fancy dress once. In steam days, motorcars and passenger (and mixed) trains ran from Crane to Spfld passing thru towns where there are no signs of a rr ever being there. Mike Adams wrote a book back in the 80s about this part of Gould’s old empire.
Yes I do like the old purple and silver ACL colors. It looks real snazzy on clean long nosed Eunits. SAL had a winner also with its citrus scheme, which was also a product of EMD’s styling dept. SAL had the only E4s and they had pullout nose doors and that weird 7bulb headlight. When ACL and SAL got together in 1967, both of these beautiful paint schemes disappeared under black. I remember SCL hoods detouring thru Spfld in '73 because of floods down south. Kinda partial to these 2 roads as my folks spent considerable time in Florida and just happened to be living there when yours truly was born. Mom said the SAL passenger crews were always real nice and helpful while ACL crews were the opposite. In her younger days, she would catch Frisco he

2126

Hi Tom, another Piels please, thanks. Good ole MoPac, used to see a lot of 'em around K.C. The Eagles had a fine livery of design and colors (my opinion). Yeah, gotta agree with the comments on the Bean Town Bumper Cars. On the way to Beverly (North Shore Music Theater) an “Air Head” came “end for end” across the center median (Rt. 127 north) and hit my ‘57’ Saratoga 4 door hardtop head on. Glad I was in a heavy car.[:O] The only competition for the New England Barney Olfields I’ve seen is in Puerto Rico[xx(] Take to the sidewalks if you’re driving your own car.[8] [#offtopic]

Just a “shot in the darkTom,” I’ll say 1200 posts eminating from the Propietorship. ***, there are so many places we will miss in New Orleans, until reconstruction, Cafe du Monde being among them. The La Louisian coffee could take the enamel off your teeth but the pastries were superb.[tup] I’ll certainly miss Dan’s Pier 500, The Famous Door, Preservation Hall, Arnaud’s, Court of 2 (3?) Sisters [by the time I got there I was “3 sheets to the wind.”] and of course the venerable Pearly Thomas Trolleys. CM3, I should hope to shout that "trackless trolleys and subways are “fair game.” Do you know the old “Red Birds” (N.Y.C. systems) are available in HO? The P.C.C.'s on what is now the “T” always struck me as out of sync. but then, what do I know. Too bad the trolley bus came to the same grief as the street cars. Further proof, to me, there was a clandestine, orchestrated conspiracy for clogging the Nation’s city streets with smoke belching, noisy motor busses lumbering in and out of traffic with perilous effect.[2c]

Let’s see, “6 favourite classes of locos, cars and trolleys, etc.” Pwolfe, by Gadfrey you have soemthing there.[^] Its back to my library of V.H.S. tapes and books to be sure I don’t leave any species unchecked. BTW, don’t know what ever happened with that game of Skittles? I’ll try to get back on this slow Tuesday, if possible. Until then.

2127

G’day Gents! Well, I see three Posts since my new CONTEST and only one taker … However, all three commented on the Fallen Flags Posts. Hmmmmmmm.

Dan [yeah] C5 still has your song, C.W. Mccall 's The Gallopin’ Goose Haven’t changed it ! [tup]

When I schedule my trip to the Midland, sure hope that RS3 will be runnin’! [tup]

Glad you liked the MoPAC info … brings back lots of thoughts and memories for those who followed her. Can’t say I was in that category, but came to appreciate Missouri Pacific once I relocated here in 1977 - of course, the handwriting was on the wall by then. RIP. [tup]

One nice thing about Posting something llke the Fallen Flags is the discussion that gets generated … really the prime purpose of this bar 'n grill. Really am puzzled regarding why so many seem reluctant to join in as of late … [%-)] Oh well, gotta keep concentrating on those who care! [yeah]

The house draught today is something from way back - Iron City Beer from Pittsburgh - can you handle it [?] [swg]

Ted Never drove in Puerto Rico - but I must admit, it did seem rather crazy. But, that was a loooooooong time ago. Ah yes, good old Route 127 - man oh man, do I remember it well. A speedway for sure and good training for one’s reflexes! [swg] Now, the period of time I’m referring to was from 1968-'73. Drove an assortment of vehicles duirng that period - let’s see: ’ 67 Dodge Coronet Wagon - '69 VW Squareback - and ’ 71Plymouth Satellite Wagon. One car family back then - subsistence existence, if you will.

Okay, you’re in with 1200 as your guesstimate for the CONTEST. Remember, guys - we need a minimum of six in order to play! C’mon …

Oh the talk about New Orleans and what will be missed really twe

2128

TOM, a Colt 45 for me then…
where are the drinking men you ask?

Gone like my last paycheck, gone ,gone away,
Gone like the shape I’m in, gone, gone away,
Gone like the rest of her, gone ,gone away,
Gone like a Nixon file, gone, gone away,
My baby’s gone away…
John Hiatt[C):-)][;)]
Chris

2129

Tom Just time for a CR and a round for the house.
My time is being taken up by tax school for the next two months so don’t know how often I will be able to drop into the forum.
Sorry if i’m missing outr will try to get back as often as possible.

2130

G’day Guys!

Don’t like this news at all - drinking men GONE -passengerfan Al gone! Geesh! [tdn]

HOWEVER, that shouldn’t have stopped either of you from taking part in the CONTEST!

But, in all seriousity [?] - we all have other things to do in our lives - work, responsibility to family and self, etc. All completely understandable. One should not let a diversion become an obsession! Really …

Catch ya later and thanx Al for the round - Chris you owe us - big time! Malt liquor - hah!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2131

“Our” Place Customer’s Posts thru Page 100:

1st … Theodorebear Ted 199
2nd …. trolleyboy Rob 155
3rd …… passengerfan Al 146
4th …… nickinwestwales Nick 120
5th …… Gunns Kevin 89
6th …… Trainnut484 Russell 83
7th …… earlydiesels Dan 73
8th …… West Coast S Dave 71
9th …… CFournier Chris 61
10th … wrwatkins *** 58
11th … coalminer3 CM3 37
12th … barndad Doug 33
13th … Pwolfe Pete 32
14th … Lordehawke Jeff 15

That’s it!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2132

Well howdy [4:-)]TOM & Awk,a large pitcher of Iron City with as many glasses as the company requires ( a delightful custom,which would result in bloodshed in this fair land…)-now contest time-well Im thinking that with postings to other forums (Fora ? -what is the plural ?) your total here will be about the 750 mark........time will tell...received your E-Mail,many thanks-thought I had cropped and centered,evidently not-was sizing any better ?...by the by,enjoying the overviews of the "lesser giants"-the only roads that get any real exposure over here are AMTRAK -mostly through holiday shows on the idiot tube and the "old classics" U.P. (licensed product) and the pre-merger Santa-Fe-both of which enjoy a slightly iconic Americana image,along with Coke bottles,gas guzzlers,tumbleweed & diners. Although most Brits are unaware that every time they see a coal train go by they are likely to be looking at a G.M (Can) unit[ poss modified S.D.40,not sure] painted in Wisconsin Central livery,after the E.W.S parent and hauling 50 high side gons fitted with rotary-dump buckeyes…right,couple of little jobs to attend to out back,back to answer post in a bit,cheers! [C=:-)]

2133

Evenin’ Nick

Iron City all around on our Chief Chef [C=:-)]! Boris do your thing! No - no - not that thing - ring the bell! [swg]

Okay - you’re in with 750 for the CONTEST … the Scientific Method will win out! [tup]

Check out the pix at the photo site and you’ll note that some of them really are also a bit skewed … Practice makes perfect, so they say. No - no, Boris, I wasn’t speaking about YOU! [banghead]

Glad you’ve enjoyed those Fallen Flags, especially since it may all be relatively new to you. Fast forward to the new age of North American railroading and the mega-roads rule. For how long is anyone’s guess. However, aside from a few upstart trunk lines, we’ll not see the emergence of independent haulers of freight or people unless and until there’s a complete “sea change” in governmental attitude and policy. Sad reality.

Take care and perhaps we’ll see you later. [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2134

Right,back again-thats Boris apron dealt with for another week,the orders despatched in time for the Zeppelin ( as [4:-)]TOM has the draught beer situation under control ,This weeks contribution from the U.K. is Youngs Ram Rod bitter in 10 oz bottles and for stout fanciers we have Belhaven 80/- ale-the classic Scots "heavy" of myth & legend ) hm,that pitcher didnt last long-got any bigger ones,right 2 of those then please [4:-)]TOM,lovely job-oh,forgot to say -loved the Canadian jokes,the temp. conv. chart very nearly caused embarresing incontinence incident -nice one [^] -O.K. to post whilst I yet retain my faculties-WOLFMAN-got a Q1 at Robertsbridge ,Kent -owing to lack of photo-editing skills,still not in usable format,but to whet your appetite some techie data—Q1 Blt 1942 on Bulleid design , pwr class. 5F,weight(loco) 51 tons 5 cwt , boiler 230 P.S.I , cyls (2) 19"x26" , driving wheels 51" , tractive effort 30,080 lbs-glad you enjoyed the W.C&P terriers-apologies for poor resolution-history on those is --First aquired was #2 in 1925-formerly L.B.&S.C #43 Gypsy Hill whilst second,in1937,was #4 ,formerly L.B&S.C#53 Ashtead-#2 more powerful of the 2,having larger cyls than std,but badly worn by time of arrival of #4 which worked almost all traffic until closure-both taken into G.W.R stock after closure in 1940 and worked out of St Phillips Marsh shed Bristol. #2 scrapped 1954, #4 condemned 1948 MANAGER TED-those time sigs are seriously twisted-sounds like a jumpin combo-who needs amps when theres that many guys pumping it out-and when its sweet.........................yeah!!!!-now ,ugly ducklings-on balance,and after considerable reflection and inner debate,I still find myself torn between Camelbacks (in any form), a particular monster from,I think ,Crampton for the LOuest, a 4-4-0 with a pair of small boilers,one atop the other , The Glasgow & South Westerns Neilson box tanks ( a design of ultra-presbyterian austerity), the modification carried on the W.H.R. Hunslet “Russell” to fit it t

2135

Good evening Y’all

I will have another gin over ice. No vermouth. Just having the vermouth well stoppered in the same room with the gin is enough. Boris, here are a pile of one dollar bills for the juke box. Glad we had it retrofitted to take paper money.

We all will miss New Orleans. It never will be the same. At McKinney Avnue Transit Authority, the vintage trolley line in Dallas, we have been trying to find out the status of the trolleys there. So far we have not been able to contact anybody. If all of their trolleys are true vintage cars and not replicas all ou have to do is to dry them out, lubricate, and put them back on the street. The new versions with printed circuit boards almost require a rebuild. I also wil miss Commander’s Palace. We would get there on the trolley. Brennans and the Court of Three Sisters along with Cafe du Monde were great places. The mayor of N O has bought a house in Dallas and moved his family in. Hopefully he will bring some of the great music and food with him.

Time to have another drink. More later,

2136

Evenin’ Gang!

Looks like things have perked up a bit ‘round here this evenin’ … one can never predict.

An oddity, indeed: six regulars have Posted since the announcement of the latest CONTEST, but only two have acknoweldged … just a third. Well, I suppose if we were discussing baseball batting averages, we’d say - hey - .333 ain’t bad! BUT, we’re talking about READING the POSTS! Which apparently still isn’t happening . [tdn]

Nick You are indeed the master of inclusiveness when it comes to responding to the Postings of our customers. It’s a talent, for sure … [tup] And, oh [yeah], thanx for the plaudits regarding the Canadian Jokes for Rob’s Birthday Bash.

Your mention of Gunns brings to mind that he isn’t the only one who has become an irregular lately. It also appears we’ll be losing passengerfan Al as well, but perhaps only on a temporary basis. However, we’ll go with the hand we’re dealt and let it go at that … [tup]

*** An evening Post [?] [wow] Can’t recall the last time … happy to have you aboard. … I’m not so sure if I’d be pleased with having the Mayor of New Orleans coming to my town. He was far less than inspiring and also quite inarticulate as well, considering the position he occupies. A Rudy G, he surely isn’t! Wouldn’t want this guy anywhere near me in a crisis situation …

I wondered about those trolleys in the Big Easy. Vintage generally is far simpler. For example, back in the days of vacuum tube radio transmitters and receivers, our military was in good shape insofar as carrying on should the effects of EMP occur. The printed circuitry of transistors and the like would simply melt. The old Soviet Navy maintained their vacuum tube gear, while the U.S. Navy laughed at them. Fortunately, we never had to put it to the test … As an old CW operator - whic

2137

Hi All,
Tom coffee please,
and a sammich,
Sorry about the Hiatus, but the new work / club work day shift has been hammering me <I rotate my work days back 1 day every 4 weeks> but never fear, I rotate again this Fri, so it wont be as much of a strain. <Right now I work two doubles, on Tues I start a mid and continue to work 8 more hrs on Wends, and onr Fri I start a mid and continue with a 8 + hr day on Sat>

BTW it “Might” be worh your time to be in ABQ during March, April 2006 we have some as yet unconfirmed “Classic” excursions Planed, no other real Info yet except I might get to crew…
Have fun all,
Gunns

2138

Things really picked-up after my last visit.[tup] Tom, I’m not ready to cash in my “chits” just yet and to prove it, I’ll have an Irish Coffee laced with Jameson’s please.[^] "Everything in moderation; including “moderation,” right? Its heartening to notice *** and Chris haven’t taken the “teetotaler’s pledge” yet either. Gunns, its a little early for me but your schedule on paper must look like a Enron “flow chart.” Nick, I’m sure we are all grateful for your diligent labo(u)rs for finding the esoteric. As someone once said: “one picture…1000 words.” Thanks to Tom and Rob for “picking up the slack” on the tech. disparities among our membership, humbly greatful![tup]

***, “there goes the neighborhood!” New Oreleans’ gain, I’m afraid, is Big 'D’s loss.[8] The good news is the early “Pearly’s” can make a come back. The other “good news” is the “digitized Clones” won’t be missed (by me anyhow). The “hindsight” criticism in N.O. is sounding more like a post mortem report that “the patient” wasn’t put on life support after his suicide.[:O] 'Course we now live in that “great society” of: “its no my yob.” Eventually, it will surely perish from terminal diaper rash.[tdn]

Fallen Flags is definitely a “winner” across the board. Eventually, that “favo(u)rite Road” will hit close to home and the memories will come flooding back as if yesterday. “Way to go,” Tom.[^] CM 3, your Mom’s comments on the courtesy of train crews was a echo of my Mom’s preference for the Santa Fe. Women travelers really look for that sort of thing. Okay, enough of my drival! One for the bar and one for the road please. Boris has his fresh apron and is ready for business, so I won’t distract him from…disecting frogs?? Gadfey Daniel, not out here! Those legs are for later, not now![alien] Happy rails.

2139

Good Morning! How nice to see the return of Gunns Kevin, and of course an early morning appearance by our Desperado Manager Ted - the fastest slide trombone in the southeast! [swg]

I’d love to make a trip out to Albuquerque - but the timing ain’t the best for me. If I were still single, I’d be there in a flash - have an old heart throb living in the area. Hmmmm - given that it’s been a looooooooong time, perhaps in a rest home! [swg] No, not really - she’s quite a bit younger than I. Ahhhhhh, what once was … [;)]

Sorry, but you lost me somewhere between a “sammich” and “a mid.” [swg] Just as long as we know that you’re still one of the guys - that’s enough. [tup] So, what’s YOUR guesstimate for the CONTEST [?]

Looks like there are at least two of us, Ted who aren’t thrilled about the leadership in New Orleans - if one can call it that. I recall someone telling me that leadership is the ability to get people to do that which they normally wouldn’t do, and to do it without griping, complaining, and perhaps even with a smile. Rudy G has it - this character surely doesn’t.

Remember that phrase (from Queen Hillary) years ago about “It takes a village,” [?] Well, I’m not referring to raising kids, but keeping the motivation level up for our bar 'n grill is somewhat like that. Thank heavens we have a strong and faithful nucleus to sustain the periods of drought 'round here. I think when one takes a look at those who have been Posting on a regular basis, it should be evident who these people are. Not so much the numbers, but the quality and consistency that counts. Thanx to you and the rest of the nucleus for keeping us refereshed and alive! [tup][tup][tup]

Those Fallen Flags will continue, as they have struck a positive chord 'round here. A bit on the labor intensive side for moi, however - if it works, go for it!

2140

WEDNESDAY’s NEWS & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Morning Guys! Ready for the mid-week Epistle [?] Best to read the SUMMARY with a hot cuppa Joe, some pastries and perhaps a light breakfast! [yeah] The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case is chock full of interesting selections – go ahead, give in! [}:)]

News of the Day:

(1) Tomorrow is our Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with our great steaks ‘n fries. Perhaps Nick our Chief Chief [C=:-)] will delight us with something special on his Nick’s Picks Menu board. [tup]

(2) CONTEST

We now know the order of Posts amongst the Regulars, but how many does the Proprietor have thru Page 100[?] Take a crack at that one …….

Shouldn’t be too hard to wager a guess from the statistics given in Tuesday’s SUMMARY. To help you compute the number, there were 42 Posts from people who were not listed in the SUMMARY.

At least six customers must participate in order for the Prize to be awarded. Prize will be announced on Friday, along with the winner! [;)]

Participants and guesstimate (closest wins):

Theodorebear Ted 1200
nickinwestwales Nick 750

(3) Fallen Flags Requests for information on a specific railroad will be honored providing I can find the data within my library. Then it’s a labor intensive matter of typing it into a word processor format for transfer to the thread. It may take awhile, but I’ll get there ……… just keep checking out what’s going on ‘round here! Isn’t that the idea, anyway [?][;)]

Missed any? Check out page 106