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Classic Trains General Discussion
2161

THURSDAY’s NEWS & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ Guys! Coffee’s fresh ‘n hot - Let’s get right to it ……….

News of the Day:

(1) Tonight is our Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with our great steaks ‘n fries. Perhaps Nick our Chief Chief [C=:-)] will delight us with something special on his Nick’s Picks Menu board. [tup]

(2) CONTEST

We now know the order of Posts amongst the Regulars, but how many does the Proprietor have thru Page 100[?] Take a crack at that one …….

Shouldn’t be too hard to wager a guess from the statistics given in Tuesday’s SUMMARY. To help you compute the number, there were 42 Posts from people who were not listed in the SUMMARY.

At least six customers must participate in order for the Prize to be awarded. Prize will be announced on Friday, along with the winner! [;)]

Participants and guesstimate (closest wins):

Theodorebear Ted 1200
nickinwestwales Nick 750
CFournier Chris 1234
trolleyboy Rob 815
pwolfe Pete 900

(3) repeat Fallen Flags Requests for information on a specific railroad will be honored providing I can find the data within my library. Then it’s a labor intensive matter of typing it into a word processor format for transfer to the thread. It may take awhile, but I’ll get there ……… just keep checking out what’s going on ‘round here! Isn’t that the idea, anyway [?][;)]

Missed any? Check out pages 106 & 108 for

2162

Evening all,
Need coffee… <did a 19 hr day allready and am back at work after 4 hrs sleep>
and Protien,

Anyway I have a thought experiment, and a question.

The Question, “How much did a “name” train ticket cost? say fron Chi town to LA?”

And the thought Experiment, what would the same Service cost today?

I really don’t know…

Gunns

2163

Gunns I’ll try to find out IF you participate in the CONTEST!!

Not sure there’d be any way to translate the ticket prices from, let’s say 1950, to 2005 without using one of Rob’s formulas … [swg]

See ya …

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2164

HELP WANTED!

Good Morning Guys!

While it may appear that our thread is alive and well, we are essentially down to a real handful of regular supporters for our thread. Just check out the past several SUMMARIES to check who has been in lately - then check out the Posts to see if they are of substance. You’ll find that we’re down to a precious few indeed.

With the planned absences of three of our more dependable guys - West Coast S Dave; passengerfan Al and wrwatkins *** some help is needed.

I’d like to be able to depend upon the few of us left to try and make at least one post during the following periods: 6 AM - Noon; Noon - 6 PM and 6 PM -midnight. Select your best timeframe and try to remain consistent with it. I’ll also try to better group my responses, so that we don’t slip too far down the Forum pages.

Finally, has anyone recommended our thread to friends and associates who are interested in trains? It’s easy to get into a rut on these Forums - sort of stick with just one site - happens all the time. Also, interests dwindle and change - that’s understandable. New blood makes all of us rekindle our enthusiasm! [tup]

Thanx!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2165

Hey [4:-)]TOM-guess I`m on for the afternoon shift,running into early evening-generally a quiet time around the bar and ill-suited to real-time exchange but with the time difference best I can do,see you all later [C=:-)]

2166

Hey Nickl

Right on! Really appreciate your jumping on this straight away …
makes all the difference! [tup][tup][tup]

Have one on me! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2167

Good Morning All: Round for those of you who are here early (or never left last p.m.) and more quarters for the jukebox. Contest guess for me is 1300 - probably way off but why not. Nick - appreciate your comment re drawing car routings, but by the end of the day, small pieces of paper are all I can handle!

I found a 1969 Official Guide in the “east wing” at the hosue last night so here’s the B&M station list our esteemed proprietor requested the other day.

Boston (No. Station)
Malden
Wyoming
Melrose
Melrose Highlands
Greenwood
Wakefield Jct.
Wakefield
Reading

Trip from Boston to Reading was 12 miles. Hope this answers the question.

There was an interesting note in with everything which said, “Budd Rail Diesel Cars operate in coach service on all Boston and Maine Railroad trains without meal service on all trains except trains 20, 21, 75, and 76.”

Train 20 was the Washingtonian and 21 was the Montrealer. This had coaches and a lounge car between Washington and Montreal and sleepers between Washington and Montreal and New York and Montreal and a sleeper between New York and White River Junction. I’ll get a post together on that b4 much longer.

Trains 75 and 76 were the “Ambassador” which was a fascinating New Haven - B&M - Central Vermont operation between New York and Montreal. I know, there’s some more postings lurking out there about this, whenever I get the time.

B4 I forget re "post times, ’ I generally try and drop by in the a.m. b4 work.

Now we’ll finish up with a list of Atlantic Coast Line “named” trains that were operating in May, 1961.

Between the East and Florida

No. 1 - East Coast Champion
No. 75 - Havana Special
No. 77 - Palmeto
No. 91 - West Coast Champion
No. 375 - Evergaldes

No. 2 - East Coast Champion
No. 76 - Havana Special
No. 78 - Palmetto
No. 92 - West

2168

Mornin’ CM3

Many, many thanx for the list of B&M RDC stops for the Reading route … I recalled 9 stations, but couldn’t name 'em if my life depended on it! [swg][tup][tup][tup] I had totally forgotten that I took my three little ones aboard the train for round trips from Melrose to Reading and also to North Station back in '69 (the year the Miracle Mets beat the Orioles in the Series, 4 games to 1, remember that [?]). My memory got jogged when I rummaged through my vast collection of 35 mm slides (remember those [?]) and came across some from the days in Melrose.

While I’m at it, thanx also for particpating in our CONTEST, you’re in with 1300. AND, your willingness to continue with your morning Posts will surely help! [tup][tup][tup] Phew … was beginning to wonder whether we’d get the six requested. [%-)]

You must have been reading my mind, for I’ve amassed a Fallen Flags series for ACL and SCL; had Ted in mind! [yeah]

I’ve got one of those monthly guides for all the North American passenger trains back in 1956. It’s called The Official Guide of the Railways and Steam Navigation Lines of the United States, Porto Rico (note the spelling!), Canada, Mexico and Cuba - August 1956, 89th year, No. 3. This 3 inch thick guide also contains the time tables of railroads in Central America and air-line schedules. It was published by the National Railway Publication Company in New York City. Single copy went for $4.00, an annual subscription cost $30.00.

I’ve spent hours browsing through the telephone book type pages and am always captivated by the advertisements appearing in it. Really enjoy it! [yeah] It was given to me as a gift from my youngest son - he found it at a flea market and thought I’d like it. He was sooooooooo right! [swg]

Catch ya later and many thanx! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2169

Morning all,
Hi Tom
More coffee, “n” a Pastery

Ahh the contest, My SWAG is 1327

I’ll try to hit from work, < mostly 2200 to 0800 mountain >

As for translating prices, I use postage, 1944 postcard, $.03.

Pic of classic Loco…
Where is he??

Gunns

2170

Wow, it has take me 2-1/2 hours to catch-up on the previous posts from my last “post” 8:30 a.m. Yesterday. Let’s have a cup of “Master Blend,” and a toasted Bagel w/cream cheese and apple jelly, please Tom. Granted, “new blood” makes for a healthy future, however, “Our” Place is anythig but anemic right now. The quality control is second to none and comaradia never better. Still, with three absentees, we could wear a little thin, I guess. Gunns, the question on ticket fares then and now? This may be of some help: [1950] $100 = $775.18 [2005]; [2005] $12.90 = $100 [1950]. This is according to the “Inflation Calculator” to be found : www.westegg.com/inflation/ Now, this is a general, “all encompassing” rate of inflation, good as only a “general” index.

Nick, thanks for the “bonus” on the Skibberrreen (2’ narrow gauge) and Dublin area R.R.ing and rosters. Chris, looks like you have the data requested on the WP trains mentioned. Tom, the “fallen flags” is the best thing since sliced bread. If you can find the time, I would like to know the routing for Frisco trains from St. Louis to the West Coast, i.e. over what other Road’s right-of-way, etc. I know this would be more for West Coast S or passengerfan al but looks like I’m a little late for that.

The Midland trip and excursion sounds great for this Fall but this year I’ve planned to put my sheckles into a “redo” of the HO and improvements on the ‘G’ pikes. “If I Were a Rich Man” (Fiddler on the Roof"), there would be no problem. Fixed retirement and soaring fuel prices, etc. make doing both… well, a fantasy. Rob, enjoyed the e-mail and you have some “in the slot on both sides of the doors.”[:D] I will try to get to other Posts as they come up but for now, it is on to “pressing matters.” Yes, I still iron and press my own shirts, slacks, shine my own shoes and sundry other Neanderthal activities long relegated to the history books. So for now, it is so long until next

2171

Oh yes, bon voyage to *** and “better half” and [bday] to Master Robin with best wishes to the happy couple.

2172

Morning all. I’ll have the usual–dognuts and black coffee, please. A rainy morning in SW Mo. We had severe storms night before last and lots of folks lost power but we were lucky. All this rain should reduce our almost 7 inch deficit.
Tom, I don’t have any patience with rude, stupid, or idiotic people.I generally have the wife handle situations like that so I won’t blow up. If I had been in your shoes, I would have drove over there and done what you said you would.
Pete and Tom, the weather is getting cooler which means you have no further excuses for not visiting the Midland. Our season ends around Halloween and we have some big events before that time. I suggest a regular service weekend as the pace is slower and I would be able to give more personal attention. We will be there this coming weekend and the next time will be the 1st and 2nd. More specifics and I will have to get with the crew caller (wife) and the GM. The RS3 hasn’t ran all season so we will more than likely use the Alco-EMD.
I am supposed to start a new job next week so it looks like evenings will be the time when I can help out around Our Place. I haven’t turned any one on to Our Place but I have tried to set up Gunns with one of our conductors from the Midland. He is taking an Amtrak trip west next month and wants to check out the 2926. He is also supposed to ride the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic on a fall colors special. (Lucky cuss!)
Any one in here a garden railroader? The local group is having their annual tour the 23rd and 24th. Missouri’s only garden rr shop is a sponsor and the local rr museum will be a stop on the tour. The Saturday date is also the annual old railroaders picnic which is held in the same park our museum is. Great food, too.

2173

Good Morning All! I see there are some responses to catch up on …

Top o’ the mornin’ to ya, Ted!

Glad you held up on that response to Gunns Kevin UNTIL he particpated in the CONTEST - would have made my coercive efforts rather watered down! [swg] Where in the world did you locate the 1950 fares [?] I just began with a few cursory search engine efforts, but came up with zip, zero, ziltch. Next stop was my not-so-vast library of hard covered passenger railroad books … Thanx for sparing me the time and effort! [tup]

Gunns Kevin Your answer has been provided - and quite promptly indeed! Now insofar as the pix is concerned, my guess is that it was taken of a spaceship about to be launched back in the days when some Kooks were announcing they were going to catch up with the Comet Hale Bopp for their salvation [?]. [swg]

Oh [yeah] Appreciate your willingness to pick up the slack during the absence of three of our number … ! [tup][tup]

Au contraire Ted - Eternal optimist that you are, I’m afraid you don’t spend the time with this as I do. It may appear by the numbers game that we’re healthy - but I assure you that isn’t the case. We are doing well only because of our nucleus who fall into the category of IGASARTS. Send me an Email and I’ll gladly define that for you! [swg]

Concur about Quality Control which translated means I remain on top of the Posts … and the Comaradia - as you put it - is very evident amongst the nucleus. Long live the core … sorry, USMC! (Corps … for those who didn’t catch it [;)]

earlydiesels Dan Thanx for reinforcing my outburst of bad and ill mannered behavior! I know it wasn’t the proper or civil thing to do - but somewhere in my humble beginnings as a kid in NYC, I learned rather quickly what one must do in those unexpected and rare circumsta

2174

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Frisco

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Route mileage in 1950: 5,100

Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):

Freight: 286
Passenger: 23
Switchers: 102

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 17,889 Passenger cars – 230

Principal routes in 1950:

St. Louis-Quanah, TX
Kansas City-Birmingham, AL via Ft. Scott, KS
St. Louis-Memphis
Amory, MS-Pensacola, FL
Monee, MO-Paris, TX
Sapulpa (Tulsa) OK-Dallas/Ft. Worth
Fort Scott-Afton, OK
Kansas City-Springfield, MO via Clinton, MO
Monett-Ellsworth, KS
Tulsa-Avard, OK
Nash, MO-Hoxie, AR

Passenger trains of note:

Black Gold (Tulsa-Fort Worth)
Firefly (Kansas City-Oklahoma City)
Kansas City-Florida Special (Kansas City-Jacksonville)
Memphian (St. Louis-Memphis)
Meteor (St. Louis-Oklahoma City & Fort Smith, AR)
Oklahoman (1st iteration) (Kansas City-Tulsa)
Oklahoman (2nd iteration, 1965-67) (St. Louis-Oklahoma City)
Southland (Kansas City & St. Louis-Atlanta & Pensacola)
Texas Special (St. Louis-San Antonio & Forth Worth)
Will Rogers (St. Louis-Oklahoma City & Wichita, KS)

Of note:
Southern Railway handled trains east of Birmingham.
MKT (Katy) handled the Texas Special between Vinita, OK and Texas destinations.

For Ted
The route maps for Frisco that I have, only reflect central and south central U.S. trackage. Further, there are NO references to thru passenger trains to the west coast under the Frisco name. Thru car service, no doubt, but with other carriers. In the 1960’s freight trains #37 and #437 ran jointly with AT&SF between Birmingham, AL and LA.

2175

Tom, no hurry for the Frisco data but thanks in advance. BTW, e-mail pending a.s.a.p. Think I’ll try an old fashioned Tom Collins with Beefeater’s Gin, hold the garbage please. No Boris, “Great Sultan’s Harem of unsanitary sex Slaves!” Not that “garbage!” I don’t know how Nick keeps our larder free from pestilence with Boris mucking about?[alien]

CM 3, my modest effort at “garden R.R.ing” has little to do with gardening. I have a “stub end” line running about 85’ to a 9’-10" dia. loop and a 14’ passing siding. It is braced off my hidious privacy fence at about 40" above ground level. No plants but lots of native animals, i.e. salamanders, tree frogs and the like. Rolling stock is a Aristo Craft (D.C.C.) Gas Electric (Santa Fe), R.P.O. and some box cars with a scratch built Cincinatti Car after the Kansas City, St. Joseph and Clay County protoype thrown in for fun. I saw your pix of the outdoor layout and its “lookin’ good.” There is lots to do on mine when this “Monsoon Season” abates.[banghead]

I’m beginning to believe some people were put on this earth just to make life miserable for others, you know; along the same lines as mosquitos, scorpions, poisonous snakes, and the like. I concur with Tom that New York City seems to have more than their fair share.[:O] However, I can’t remember when so many of these malcontents ended up as U.S. Politicians and Judicial psychpaths. Their only “pledge” is to egocentricity, their Temples- -Test Tubes.

Okay Tom, I try to get “online” early in the a.m. everyday. If possible, I check in again around 1pm - 3pm. This isn’t “carved in marble” as life deals us a Joker now and then. Everybody take care and “if you are too busy to go surfin’ now and again, you’re just too busy.” Happy rails.

2176

Hi Ted

Man that blows my socks off! Didn’t see the FRISCO Posting [?][?] How’d that happen [?] Oh well …

I think I’ll join ya at the other side of the bar! Cindy just stopped by and said she’d give me a break … [swg]

Still am puzzled about you not seeing that FRISCO Post. [%-)][%-)][%-)]

Just like hemorrhoids - there are some people on this Earth who are useless! [swg]

Oh [yeah] when it comes to dependability - don’t have to ask YOU! Thanx for being here … really! [tup][tup][tup]
Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2177

Hey guys! Nick’s pix now has 18 photos … check 'em out at:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b222/siberianmo/Nicks%20pix/

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2178

Hello there. I’ll take a margarita on the rocks with salt, please. Tom, I appreciate the Frisco bio a lot. Plenty of people have never heard of the classy railroad that was the Frisco. Even fewer know anything about it. I haven’t ventured a guess because I am terrible at anything concerning odds(gambling).
Our RS3m looks like the original Alco except for the GP9 long hood. Type B road trucks, GE electricals, but 567 sounds. Cab is much roomier than the Alco original as 26L air and AAR control stand take up less room than the 6SL brake and Alco’s funky control stand. There are 3 seats (and a upturned 5 gallon bucket) in the 142 so plenty of room for visitors. Let me know when you and the boss can come out.

2179

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Katy Pale Ale and a bacon sandwich please. Thanks for posting the great pictures by NICK. The one on the lower half of page10 reminded me of a named train which was operated by this class of D.M.U. in the mid to late 50’s. It ran along the North Wales coast between RHYL and LLANDUDNO a distance of about 15 to20 miles. It ran in the summer only and stopped at nearly all stations. It was called the WELSH DRAGON. Before the D.M.U.s were introduced it was worked by a L.M.S 2-6-2 tank engine in PUSH PULL mode. This was a time in the U.K. when most people user public transport to go on their summer vacation.

I wonder if you gentlemen at the bar can help me[?]. We went to the MUSEUM OF TRANSPORTATION in ST. LOUIS last year, although it was not on public display, their collection highlight booklet describes the first electric main line locomotive in the U.S.
It was built by THOMPSON -HOUSTON in 1892. The loco is known as General Electric#1.I was wondering if anyone knew anything about this company as in RUGBY U.K. there was a large electrical manufacturer called Briti***hompson-Houston(B.T.H.). They merged with other firms in 1959 to form A.E.I. They also built electrical equipment for the railways.

Tom another Katy Pale please, talking of the KATY is there any chance of doing a Fallen Flags on it sometime[?][tup]. Hope to call in again soon PETE.

2180

G’day Guys!

And the beat goes on … nice chats going on today and if the Fallen Flags have contributed in a positive manner, along with Posts from CM3, that’s terrific! Something - anything to keep the flow moving in the direction of Classic Trains! [yeah][tup]

earlydiesels Dan Glad you enjoyed the FRISCO Post … have to admit, Iearn something new each time I research one of those great railroads from yesteryear.

I think perhaps you may be getting a bit too serious with this cyber stuff … the CONTEST is for fun - just that, nothing more. One doesn’t have to put up cash - the mortgage, or the first born, in order to participate. Just wager a guess - that’s it. So, here’s the deal: You’re in for 761. [?] you say! Well, if you were to add up just the numbers contained in your Post, the total comes to 761. That’s a fair guesstimate, wouldn’t you say [?] [swg]

There are two considerations I have to make regarding the trip to Kansas - to go alone, or with the bride. That’s to be worked out … Actually, yet another - perhaps Pete will want to make the trip as well. So, some Emails will be sent in a day or so in order to line up our thoughts, etc. Watch for 'em … [tup]

pwolfe You got it - watch for the Katy to show up as a Fallen Flag Post! [tup]

I expect Nick will send me some descriiptions to go along with those pix … when he does, I’ll amend the display. I’m sure they have special meaning for you and anyone who can relate to rail travel in the Great Britain. [tup]

I’m no help with regardi to your question - but it sure would seem a bit mroe than coincidental that those companies wouldn’t be somehow linked. Given the origins of this country and the timeframe involved, there just has to be