"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

Classic Trains General Discussion
2561

Hello Tom and everyone. Darn I missed Cindy. Oh well maybe tomorrow, Leon I’ll have a Miller Lite. Dave great story on the Santa Fe and Rio Grande war. I have a movie that I taped years ago on the Turner Classics channel or one of those classic movie channels called "The Denver and Rio Grande. I think it was made in the fifties or sixties. It’s about the Rio Grande and it’s surveyors competing for land with another road (I think it’s a ficticious road). Anyway, it’s a good movie.

I have a war story to share, and it’s from my history of American railroads report I did for a college English class. The time of all this was in the 1830s:

The new railroads did not have it easy during their infancy. The canal and turnpike people saw their business dwindle, and turned to physical violence. They teamed into mobs and vandalized sections of track, and ambushed train crews while the train was stopped. Even the law made it hard for the railroads, by putting in stipulations for new charters. New railroads could not enter certain city boundaries to connect with other railroads, and a railroad could not haul freight when a competing canal was open, or charge lower rates. Some railroads had to pay the state anything earned over ten percent, even thought they have not earned a profit.

In some cases, a new railroad would be required to give back the line after a given time period. A New England state required railroads to pay every landowner the price he set on any given land. Of course, the small canal and turnpike towns that drove the railroads away ceased to exist. Three thousand miles of track had been laid by 1840, and tripled by 1850 in despite of all the loopholes the railroads had to jump through.

Definately rough times back then for building a railroad.

Another ML please Leon…thanks.

Russell

2562

O.K-for those of you,who like me,have nothing better to do at this time of night,sit back,let [4:-)]TOM fill your glass and Ill try to put a bit of life into a pretty flat layout tour-The trains-well,Im running 4 passenger workings at the moment-Bradford GO train (see notes above )–Walthers F40PH + Athearn 3-car bi-level set,“Northlander”—Atlas FP7a+3 M.P.Budd cars,“Northland” night train-B/mann F9a+F7b plus M.P.cars(bge,slp,dnr)-last and least plausible,“Algonquin Ranger” land cruise,–F40PH (Walthers again ) in VIA grey & blue hauling a very mixed 5 car set Also a number of freight workings,#410-ex Gravenhurst collects at all stops (B/mann GP35) #450-ex North Bay( O.N.R F.P7a+a-pwr & dummy -Atlas & Athearn),Detroit-Capreol( Totally bogus R.S.11,G.T.W.livery(M.P.),requires F9 (B/mann) pilotto lift load up " the bank"-Burlington line locals handled by M.P. F2,G.T.W F3a also works in on Detroit-Toronto Local–switching and transfer work around Rutherford yard,back & forth to Don Valley yard and around and about is left with the 2 M.P GP9s,sure there are a couple of Northbounds I`ve missed out-ROB-ball in your court there------O.K–Thanks to anyone and everyone who has stayed with us so far,Leon,I believe you have the bar,moonlight mile for me,sleep the sleep of the just gentlemen,for who knows what tomorrow may bring,night all,nick[C=:-)]

2563

Hello All!

If I could put these past couple of days worth of Posts in a jar, I sure would! What a great outpouring we’ve had since the “air was cleared” on Monday, both here and by Email. Many heartfelt thanx to those of you who are making this fun to particpate in and with! [tup][tup][tup]

Nick One of the more humorous times I spent in a bar back in 'round 1967 was in NYC when Simon & Garfunkel’s “Mrs. Robinson” was still on the charts. A couple of us were in a local pub in downtown Manhattan, and for whatever the reason (as if we neeeded one) each time that song played on the Juke - one of the guys would chime in - off key - but so funny it just cracked me up. All these decades have gone by, and I still laugh to myself about that outing! [swg] I do think that was right 'round the time I put my right hand into some “draft dodging punk’s” nose earlier in the day. Called me a “baby killer.” The cops were really nice to ME - not so for him. Oh well …

There’s an empty pig’s feet jar over there by the Juke, filled with quarters - 5 plays for a quarter! Why are you spending your money [?] [%-)][%-)] The volume control is on the lower right side, or you can use the one behind the bar by the register! Geesh - you’d think you were unfamiliar with the joint! [swg]

Those Athearn wheel flanges sound like something to take up with their customer service people. Before they sold out, they had a pretty good system working. My suggestion is to begin it by Email and be persistent. A suggestion is to perhaps change out some wheels with equipment that you rarely operate - maybe those either on sidings or on display - at least until you can get some replacements.

That tale you confessed to regarding the funds from the tub would probably sound a lot better to me had I consumed a few more Coors Lights! [swg] Whatever works, mate! I know you’re good for it … [tup]

By the by, I received your reply to my Emai

2564

Hey Guys … I just noticed that something’s not quite right on page 128 - lots of Posts are missing. Wonder what’s up [?] Surely we haven’t “transgressed.” Shouldn’t be anything to worry about - I think it’s more of a “glitch” with the site. Wait it out until the morning - then I’ll pursue it.

Okay - Part II - it’s now 10:26 PM and things are normal on page 128 … Gremlins! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2565

HI Tom and all.

A pint of the usual and a round for the house please.

Many thanks DAVE RUSSELL AND TOM for the railroad wars posts [wow][yeah].You can almost smell the cordite.Thanks TED for starting the subject. It seems the railroad builders were a law to themselves in them days.In England there was a lot of inter company rivalry in the early days. When a line had running powers over another line the signalman (dispatcher) for the owning railway often would delay the others trains as much as possible.

One of the worst examples was in Nottingham a Midland Railway stronghold. The Great Northern built a line to the outskirts of the City and running rights to the CIty center over Midland tracks, where they built a depot and engine shed. One night early on, after the G.N.engine was shedded for the night, the Midland removed the tracks thus stopping the G.N.services untill ordered to replace them by the courts.

On the subject of MOVIES. The first film I was taken to the cinema to see, was an American film. Which I think was called THE GREAT LOCOMOTIVE CHASE or something like that. This would be in the early to mid 50s I think the locomtives were fairly modern steam locos not the early Western type although I could be wrong. No doubt one of the regulars can help me here. [tup]

Hope you enjoyed the Newcastle Brown NICK[tup] liked the description of the services on your layout a bit different from the S&D railway. Thanks for the eggs and HP sauce.

Hopefully one day TOM we can have an OUR PLACE outing to OLD BLIGHTY armed with 1st class Brit-rail passes.

One for the road please LEON and OK I’ll buy a small packet of nuts for AWK but I’ll let BORIS give them to him [:-,] PETE.

2566

Good evening Tom I see your name is still here.I’ll take a late night Irish coffee while I catch up. I’ll owe you a round again for missing yesterday wirking 7 strait took it’s toll I fell a sleep at 8:30 last night and didn’t resurface till this morning at least it’s / was my day off. Today was my aniversary a s well so iyt’s been a busy last couple.[tup][swg] I’ve thouroughly enjoyed the B&O exchange beteween everyone’s switch seems to have been flicked by that one espeacally manager ted I think he is still on cloud nine.For me theirs was likely the best calssiest firsy generaation diesel paint scheme. That royal blue and grey just was the cats **** on the FT’s FA’s and F3’s and 7’s. Pwolfe and Ted Pete those urls are wonderfull i haven’t been able to completely go through them yet but Ted’s right wow what a treasure trove thank-you~! Nick Good info on your pike quite the ambitious breadth and scope you are undertaking. I don’t have theeir web site info. But the H.O.M.E.S ( ho model engineers society ) This is a Hmailton Ontario based club they modelled TH&B CN/CP and their own home road The Bay City Lines in an enclusive mid ontario set up. they cover Port Colbourne to North Bay with all station stops in between! try to google search for them their layout is to die for ( so’s the monthly dues [XX(] ) Troy thanks for poping by. As I mentioned earlier I haven’t read the email yet i will likley tonight or tomorrow. A gscale PCC should be a thing of beauty. I have some shots on my railimages site from our museum, these will mostly be broadside shots. I can easily go up and do a walk round photo shoot for you so I’ll get some speacifics from you soon. Ted and the gang I had recieved a bit of NO info for you. OPur museums head mechanic finally got hold of the maintenance supervisor in NO. Apparently the Charles street line stayed above water and had little other then wind damage. This is the line all the classic vintage aka real streetcars ran on. Minor repairs and their

2567

Hello Pete

I’ve been watching trolleyboy Rob logged on and off this thread for about the last hour … wonderin’ when he’s gonna Post! Now, if that isn’t a waste of time, what is [?] [swg] Actually, I’m watching the Yankees and Angels playoff game - tied at 2 in the 7th inning.

So the railroad wars were not restricted to North America, eh [?] Well, that shouldn’t surprise anyone! Intimidation and coercive force is as old as mankind itself …

There was a time we had really thought about a trip to “Merry Old,” however I doubt that will occur anytime soon. We talked about this on our Amtrak trip … It surely would be nice, especially with the 1st Class rail passes - the ONLY way to go! [tup][tup]

Smart move letting Boris feed Awk - you are quick to pick up on his bad habits! [swg]

Thanx for stopping by - and by the by, I replied to your Email. [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2568

Okay i came back had so much catch up reading to do I thought that I was back in highschool. [:O][XX(] There were some train wars in canada too Pete they just weren’t shooting at each other. During the Reil rebellion in 1885 the mostly completed ( in ontario ) CPR was used to ferry the CDN Militia and Northwest mounted police to what’s now Manitoba. The soldiers had to portage through parts of the candain shield as the CPR track gangs were still blasting tunnels and bridging muskeg. The whole Northwest rebellion story is a good read. russell i enjoyed your post on the appropriate rules for the company stores. I’m not at all supprised ny the sunday oppening rules. frankly i’m supprised they even allowed emergency oppenings back then. The roads up here did some similar things. ther wasn’t sunday streetcars operating in Toronto untill the TTC was formed in 1921. Port arthur and Fort William Ontario ( now Thunderbay ) didn’t allow their street railways to operate on sundays till the mid thirties. Regina in Sask was the same as well. well gents i’m done for sure this time. rob

2569

Awwwwwwwright, all’s well with the world - trolleyboy Rob is back! [yeah][wow]

Whaddyamean, YOUR Anniversary - does Heather know this [?] Hmmmmm - let’s see, it’ll cost ya a couple of Blue’s in Toronto to keep me quiet! [swg]

Thought that inquiry by troybetts Troy would flick your switch. Another benefit of these forums, the healthy exchange of info. [tup]

[yeah] These past couple of days have been the best - actually began on Monday afternoon. Unbelievable exchanges and Posts. Too much to expect it to last - but just goes to show how much enthusiasm many of our guys have for this topic of Classic Trains.

Looked like we were in for some difficulty a couple of hours ago when page 128 dropped all but the first two Posts. Stayed that way for an hour that I know of. Kept using “refresh,” but nothing changed. Logged off and on - still no change. Used my other computer (this is a laptop) - no change. Then - just like “that” all returned to normal. Ya gotta love it!

Alas - the NHL season began tonight and my Blues got whipped 5-1 by the dreaded Red Wings. Only 81 more games to go! [swg]

I gotta get ready to pack it in for the nigth and just wanted to see if we could be on line at the same time. Your work schedule is unreal - but that’s why they pay you the BIG bucks, eh [?] [swg]

Catch ya in the 'morrow … [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2570

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

G’day All!

A quick observation: We have had a rather busy week as the guys have really been active with the Posts. One thing is that it’s difficult to keep up with them all, however, my intent is to acknowledge everyone who makes a contribution. That should be what we all try to do – recognize one another’s efforts. [tup]

Reminder: Tonight is Fish 'n Chips Nite and whatever else Nick [C=:-)] may wi***o add to his Nick’s Picks Menu Board! [swg] [dinner] Dinner starts at 5 PM! [tup]

Okay – you know the routine – bakery goods, coffee and light breakfasts! [swg]

Info for the Day:

Comin’ Events:

Saturday, Oct 8th : OKTOBERFEST!
Sunday, Oct 9th Sunday Photo Posting Day!
Wednesday, Oct 12th: The 6th month Anniversary of the creation of ”Our” Place.

INDEX

Index pages for Fallen Flags, etc.

Generic URL: Just insert the index page in place of “106,” copy ‘n paste ‘n “go,”

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=106&TOPIC_ID=35270

-or- insert the index page in the address portion of this page (at the top).

106 – SP
106 – MoPac
108 – WP
109 – Frisco
112 – CNR (passenger ops)
112 – CNR Super Continental Time Table
112 – Heralds of the Fallen Flags
113 - Passenger Train Nostalgia #1 “Start ups” 1800’s & early 1900’s
114 – ACL
115 – SCL
116 - D&RGW
117 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #2 Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lo

2571

Morning Tom. Trying to talk to me real time’s gonna kill you be carefull, I can always send smoke signals [swg] BTW I have sent Troy a message through the forum so if he doesn’t get it i hope he checks back. Responded to your email(s) as well. sorry bout your blues my maple leafs lost the NHL’s first shootout to Ottawa tonught as well. On the upside we got a point and Eric Lindros scored on the downside Sundin took a puck to the eye in the first period not an auspicious star to the year.[tdn] I’m only going to get busier from now on xmas is comming. BTW I don’t dink blue so you will have to settle for Molsons or Black label in Toronto [tup] pwolfe Pete is there a shot of that NA tram in any either of those sites you posted. I did see several cars that for all the world look like PTC brills from Chicago? I still haven’t done a deep search of either site yet but I do like what I have seen so far. I only wi***hat our mueseum had the space and money that the good folks at critch have. A truly awesome ste up. A couple of our board members were there last fall and they are still raving about it.Anyway I’m definatly off now later folks. Rob

2572

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Chicago, Burlington & Quincy (CB&Q) Burlington Route

Headquarters: Chicago, IL

Mileage:

1950: 11,000 (includes subsidiaries, Fort Worth & Denver and Colorado & Southern)

Locomotives in 1963:

Steam: 10 Diesel: 691

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 41,099 Passenger cars: 925

Principal lines in 1950:

Aurora, IL-Minneapolis, MN via Rochelle, IL
Chicago-Omaha-Denver via Lincoln, NE
Galesburg, IL-Kansas City & St. Joseph, MO via Quincy, IL
Savanna & Rock Island, IL-Paducah, KY
Burlington, IA-St. Louis via Quincy
Omaha-Kansas City via St. Joseph
Napier, MO (St. Joseph)-Oxford,NE
Table Rock, NE-Billings, MT via Lincoln
Billings-Galveston, TX via Thermopolis & Cheyenne, WY & Denver
Ashland, NE-Sioux City, IA
Galesburg-Peoria, IL
Kansas City-St. Louis (trackage rights on GM&) Kansas City-Mexico, MO)

Passenger trains of note:

Afternoon Zephyr (Chicago-Twin Cities)
Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyr (Chicago-Lincoln)
American Royal Zephyr (Chicago-Kansas City)
Black Hawk (Chicago-Twin Cities
California Zephyr (Chicago-Oakland, CA; jointly operated with D&RGW and WP)
Denver Zephyr (Chicago-Denver-Colorado Springs
Empire Builder (Chicago-Seattle & Portland, jointly operated with GN and SP&S)
Exposition Flyer (Chicago-Oakland; jointly operated with DR&GW and WP; replaced by California Zephyr in 1949)
Kansas City Zephyr (Chicago-Kansas City)
Mainstreeter (Chicago-Seattle & Portland, operated jointly with NP and SP&S)
Morning Zephyr (Chicago-Kansas City

2573

So much worthy input, I don’t know where to begin. Chrissy, let me begin at the beginning: a 'round for the house and Crown ‘n’ soda with a lemon twist, if you please. Knowing full well I can’t “touch all bases” with one Post; I’ll “chip away” in a piecemeal fashion. Dave, fine treatise on the A.T.S.F. vs. D. & RGW “turf wars.” Snata Fe’s management was agressive indeed and had some “run ins” with Espee as well. Its also true that there was a “Wild East and North America” during those heady days of “do or die” expansion. YesTom, I have recovered from the euphoria of the B. & O. Fallen Flag and no sooner coming out of “withdrawal” than another favorite (C.B. & Q) “blows my mind.”[^] Rob, pwolfe “did a number” on our taste buds for traction too, eh? Say, I wouldn’t mind giving a P.C.C. in G guage a “go” myslef. It could keep my Cincinnati interurban in good company. Good news from New O., BTW. Now, with Dave’s supplement on the Pacific Electric and maybe a taste of Sacramento Northern thrown in, plus your own abundent well spring of Radials and Trolleys; there nothing for it, except for to “pitch in.” I’ll “kick in” what I can on some mid-western Interurban (Raidial) action in the “hay day” of their operations. Indiana Rwy. and the North Shore Lines occur to me first but not on this post, not just yet but soon.[tup]

Who couldn’t love those Milwaukee Road big electrics and smooth side passengers with the B-29 observations biding a fond farewell to crowded platforms of yore?[:D] Can you hear the traction motors whinning way up front? How about the bright silver fluted sides Royal Zephyr idleing while trainmen in sharp dark blue w/gold piping uniforms assist passengers into those “new fangled” articulated coaches? Then, a surprising triad blast from the air chime instead of the ususal moan of the steam whistle. Yes, at one time it was all real. There are pix of the K.C. Zephyr and U.P. City of Los Angeles 10,000 (gas dissilite (sp?) pa

2574

Good evening.
My thanks to Tom and Rob.Rob,I have sent an E-mail.
I must say,after actually reading the entire thread,that this is nothing like the tedious coffeshop threads.It actually deals with information.Well done to you all.
I hope you don’t mind if I pop in from time to time.
Thanks again,Troy

2575

G’day Gents!

Perhaps “Our” Place has come of age, so to speak. For after continued pleas and rerferences to the purpose of this thread -that being the discussion of Classic Trains - we’ve arrived at a point where it is happenin’ and happenin’ regularly. [tup]

In reviewing the earlier pages, we must credit our friend at the bar, coalminer3 CM3 for being “on track” so often. His Posts have been along the lines of what some of us have tried to maintain from the “get go.” So, here’s to you CM3 - wherever you are this fine day! - Ring the bell, Boris, a round for the house and Cheers to CM3. [yeah]

Thanx to all for the Email responses. Our lines of communications are healthy and vibrant. [tup] Perhaps some good came from this past weekend’s confusion.

Now to the responses:

Rob as a friend of mine used to say back in NYC -

Vito the Hit was a man of his “woid” and his “woid” jolted reality into the hearts 'n minds of most men he came to “know.” So, once again I repeat: When we’re in Toronto, it will be Blue as in LaBatts. It doesn’t matter what YOU drink - to keep ME quiet about your verbal transgression, a couple of Blue’s will do quite nicely! Get it [?] Okay, Vito rest easy - the guy’s “alright.” [:O]

The rail “wars” in Canada are stories worth hearing, and if available - viewing. In a time that no longer exists, the manner in which Canadian authorities handled those situations was much more “civil.” However, aside from tipping our hats to a “kinder and gentler way,” the shoot 'em ups and knock 'em downs always seem much more exciting. Sorry -just the innate “violent American” in me! [swg]

Ted A tip of the cap to ya, my friend for

2576

Ooooooops, I see a Post requiring acknowledgment …

troybetts Troy Two days in a row - well, that could indicate the start of something good! [tup] Now that you’ve taken the time to research our pages a bit more thoroughly, and perhaps with an obective point of view, let me offer this:

We began on April12th for the purpose of discussing Classic Trains while having some fun doing it. But even before that, a couple of us were just at the point of exasperation with the manner in which “business” was being conducted on the more “open topic” threads found on several forums. One guy even went so far as to Post his opinion as a separate topic with the result being a barrage of defensiveness bordering on attacks upon the author. This was the impetus I needed to create this thread. It’s working.

Of course you are most welcome to join us whenever time permits and to hoist a tankard or two with us as we over imbibe 'round here from time to ttime! [swg] Of course, we’d appreciate your offerings regarding Classic Trains too! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

2577

Cheers Tom.
Classic trams I could probably do(I was reared with them).Also classic trains, but I would have to involve my father for the info.
If you could keep a straight glass on the corner of the counter for my Guinness I would love to return.
Regards,Troy

2578

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #4

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956)

Did you know that the Canadian National Railways also owned and operated hotels in major cities along their main lines [?] Check these out:

:

CANADIAN NATIONAL HOTELS, LTD.

City…………………Name……………………Rooms………Open

Ottawa, ON.………. Chateau Laurier……… 550……… All year
Winnipeg, MN.…… The Fort Garry.………. 265……… All year
Edmonton, AB.…… The MacDonald……… 480……… All year
Saskatoon, SK…… The Bessborough……. 260……… All year
Vancouver, BC.…… Hotel Vancouver.……. 560……… All year
Halifax, NS.….…… The Nova Scotian…… 150.……… All year
Charlottetown, PE… The Charlottetown…… 110……… All year
St. John’s, NL.…… Newfoundland Hotel… 140……… All year
Montreal, QC.……. Queen Elizabeth……… ----……… Under construction

Note: Hotel Vancouver operated jointly by CNR and CPR.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

2579

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and can you put me down for the Fish and Chips later please[^][tup].

ROB I’m glad you liked the web-sites [tup].I am trying to get in touch with my mate back in England as I am sure he will some more info on the Immingham cars. I wish I had one of my pre 1960 IAN ALLEN COMBINED VOLUMES over here as I am sure that would have the info.

ROB, TED and all I dont know if you gentlemen have heard of the ISLE OF MAN [?] A relativly small island between England and Ireland. The place is like a time warp for railfans, with a narrow gauge steam and 2 electric railways if you like here is a web site.

http://www.iomguide.com/electricrailway.php

Tom thanks for the Flags I think there is a Burlington Route steam loco preserved in a park in St Josepth M.O.

You will have to get me signed up with Inspector Doyle I have found a web site on the MENTIS Classic Car it is normally based in K.C. and is of Canadian origin.The site is

http:www.morail.com/cars_for_charter.htm

Glad to see TROYBETTS again. I believe Tenderton is the home of some American built U.S.A. class 0-6-0 Tank engines perhaps TROY could let us know if any are in working order [?].

Great post on the Canadian railroad war.[tup] Any more[?].

I hope to call in later PETE.

2580

Good day barkeep - I think I’ll try one of those straight glasses of Guinness and also one of your sandwiches - make it an Italian sub.

Quite an interesting week that you have had here since my last visit. Very much interaction which has no doubt helped cheer Tom the Proprietor beyond measure. That is good.

That series on the Baltimore & Ohio brings back many memories of fine routes and finer trains. Really appreciated that company and was sorry to see it merge and ultimately disappear from the railroad landscape.

I see you have one of those guys who frequents this place with considerable knowledge about riding trains. I am not so sure that his perspective is in focus. My vote is for floodlights, by the way. Makes much more sense and why argue with the advertisement?

There are no other threads out there with as much shared knowledge as what I have seen here. That includes forums on other web sites that I have frequented over the years. Good job by all concerned.

Looking at that CNR hotels advertisement with the “under construction” phase of the Queen Elizabeth hotel in Montreal surely is worth a smile. I have stayed at that hotel and it is a keeper. When in Montreal these days, there are so many more modern and perhaps up scale hotels, however, the QE is my choice. Used to have business there quite often - but no longer. Once the Englilsh language wars took off, so did my business interests. Moved out …

I may be in Scandanavia for a trip - business. Have been up to Bergen, Norway by train and throughout Sweden as well on the X2000. Always like my time there - although the politics are difficult to take.

One more brew please - make it an Ansel.

BK