building layout want to know if i can use particale board in stead of plywood for base due to the high price of plywood
You’ll get lots of opinions on that. If you do go with particle board, you’ll need closer supports. Given it’s the base for everything that goes on top staying straight and level over the years, plywood is a better investment IMO.
I have to agree with Mike. Not only is plywood more supportive, you’ll find it cheaper, as well.
Maybe, or maybe not. I found the information in the following link which seemed so support the notion that OSB (Oriented Strandboard) interesting to read - just one quote:
http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/choosing-between-oriented-strandboard-and-plywood/
“Osb and plywood share the same exposure durability classifications: Interior, Exposure 1 (95% of all structural panels), Exposure 2 and Exterior. They share the same set of performance standards and span ratings.”
Much of the information implies to me that OSB would work fine for a layout in humidity controlled conditions such as a basement with a dehumidifier.
I’m on a budget and the 8 dollars per sheet helped. Much of the area I’ve used mine on is a sandwich of homasote and OSB 7/16-inch. It seems pretty staple and not prone to sagging to me so far, so good. I’ve noted a number of other layouts using it - I also used it in my garage layout in the early 1990’s and it worked ok for the few years used it before moving.
Particle board WILL sag unless the underlying supports are quite close together–say 12" centers or even a bit less, somewhat dependent upon the thickness. What you save compared to the plywood cost will probably be more than offset by the cost of additional supports. Everything I have read and heard says stick with plywood.
I wonder if the OP meant OSB when he said particle board. I used to refer to it that way too but it is a different materal isn’t it.
I have used OSB (Orientated Strand Board) in the 7/16 thickness.
The joists are 16 on center to support the OSB.
My layout has been up for over 15 years and is located in a basement.
I use a dehudmidifier in the summer - no heat in the winter. I some portable electric heaters I will sit around when I have an OPs Session twice a month.
Once the lights have been on a couple hours the temp the room warms up fairly quick.
The main thing is the OSB has to be supported properly!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
riogrande5761
OSB and particle board are not the same thing. I don’t know for certain but OSB may be a suitable substitute for plywood in our layouts. But I do not believe particle board is.
There is an interesting comparison of OSB and particle board at the link below.
Yeah, you can make OSB work (with proper support), particle board will be a constant struggle against gravity more than likely.
Thing is, you spend more money on the supporting structure and extra effort to build it. It’s probably a wash as far as OSB is concerned. You’ll be in the hole trying to keep particle board from sagging.
Jim and Bob have important points about humidity here. It’s not just sagging, but expansion due to taking up hunidity. If you’re in Florida or Texas, beware if you don’t have air.
Not sure about the non-plywood types but one consideration would be behavior when making vertical transitions; e.g., from level to a grade.
Which is why I mentioned it, as some 15-20 years ago, when I had no clue as to the terminololgy, I referred to OSB as partical board because it looked like it was made of wood particles, more or less. I was a “dumb” grad student working on my masters degree at the time and didn’t know much about building materials. However, I used a lot of discarded construction site scraps to make my layout with to save money - it worked out fine.
BTW, I thought I had posted the link where I got my quote from - looks like I spaced and left it out - I’ve added it back to the earlier post and here as well:
http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/choosing-between-oriented-strandboard-and-plywood/
Bottom line is OSB is waaay cheaper than plywood at my local Home Depot and quite economical at about $8 for a 4x8 sheet. Great for someone on a budget.
I use 15/32 plywood pine sheathing (Plytanium). Works fine. It can be a little rough in spots, but you’re going to cover it anyway. While is costs about $22 a sheet vs $9 for OSB where I am, I think it’s worth it for a better product.
Enjoy
Paul
I think it’s about $8 for OSB vs. $24 for plywood here in northern Virginia.
Anyway, if money is no object, then by all means get the best. If your on a tight budget, OSB will work fine too. Money is an object for me.
OSB or chipboard is made from large chips of wood. It has strands of fiber in the middle of it (oriented strand board) running the long way of the panel. This has been mixed with an adhesive and put under extreme heat and pressure to form a panel in various sizes and thickness. Usually has one side smoother than the other. It can be used on roofing or sidewalls of a building. It is resistant to water to a certain degree but should be covered when exposed to the weather. It can span up to 24" at the proper thickness. Your supplier can inform you. 16" is usually 1/2" thick. Should work good for under a layout as it is stable indoors.
Particle board is sawdust mixed with glue and compressed much like OSB. In normal situations it used as a underlayment for flooring. It’s the stuff cheap furniture is usually made from (think bookshelves with sagging shelves). The glue used is not waterproof and will absorb it and begin to swell. Not good to build scenery on. Would need support closer together than OSB. This means additional cost. Penny wise and pound foolish.
If you desire a solid surface under your layout and cannot afford good plywood, I would go with the OSB. DO NOT use particle board, you would be sorry in the long run a have less money for that new motive power.
P.S. OSB will hold nails and screws way better than particle board but not as good as plywood.
Hope this helps. Enjoy your new layout.
Just use foam!!!
I use 3/4" plywood but am not adverse to saving money. Does 3/4 " thick OSB exist?
One thing I have heard from people who use OSB a lot is that it has much more adhesive than plywood and can be hard on your tools therefore.
I’ve never heard that OSB is hard on tools; I haven’t had any issues or worn out bits etc. The benchwork I’m nearly finished building I used only two power tools to build with, a Sabre Saw and a cordless drill - thats it! I’m doing everything on a budget and with a little care it’s all come out fairly good.
Since make lots of mistakes while laying track, I prefer to use nails/spikes rather than adhesives, so Foam is a “no-go” for me.
As for 3/4 - check your local Lowes or Home Depot - I used 7/16ths and it’s been fine - but I never looked for the thicker stuff - didn’t want to deal with the extra weight and 7/16ths has been sufficiently stable.
Reading further toward the bottom of that article I found this:
If you are planning to use osb as a subfloor OR underlayment for your next tile floor, you may want to think again. Joe Tarver, Executive Director of the National Tile Contractors Association, Jackson, MS says, “ Osb is not an acceptable substrate to receive ceramic tile, period!” NTCA lists osb, along with pressboard and luan plywood, as “not acceptable” in its reference manual. It has to do with thickness swell. They feel that if osb gets wet, it transfers stress and causes the tile to fail.
I think ballast & scenery, being water intensive, would have similar risks. They point out in the article that the equality to plywood only applies in full sheet applications. When you cut the OSB, all bets are off. Factory edges are sealed against moisture but edges cut in the field are not. With the frequency of edges in MRR subroadbed, I’d say this needs attention.
OSB may be entirely acceptable as subroadbed, but if I were going to use it I’d put some kind of a sealer on the cut edges. The savings per sheet relative to plywood can easily cover the cost of a can of Thompson’s (or whatever brand you prefer).
If you are planning to use osb as a subfloor OR underlayment for your next tile floor, you may want to think again. Joe Tarver, Executive Director of the National Tile Contractors Association, Jackson, MS says, “ Osb is not an acceptable substrate to receive ceramic tile, period!” NTCA lists osb, along with pressboard and luan plywood, as “not acceptable” in its reference manual. It has to do with thickness swell. They feel that if osb gets wet, it transfers stress and causes the tile to fail. - See more at: http://b
While I would expect that OSB has more glue, they both are glued products.
As such they will dull your sharp edges faster than a pine board. Carbide tip saw blades will help.
You’ll also need to go slower when using low end power tools and rest them if they start to get warm. Otherwise the overheating could damage your tools.
For years I used a low end 1/4 inch drill with no problems and drilled wood, plywood, cinder block, etc. By keeping one hand on the body and resting it when it got warm it lasted and gave me years of sevice. In fact I still have it and it still works, but I use beefier 3/8 and 1/2 inch drills now.
Enjoy
Paul
Carl,
I did read the entire article and those cautionary comments - which of course the conditions advocated here aren’t subflooring - much of the OSB info indicated it was a suitable substute for plywood (when used as recommended), which itself was criticized when it was first in use.
Protecting against moisture is good insurance - which I’m doing in addition to using the dehumifier. There are modelers who have used OSB for years quite successfully so IMO, it is a viable option for those who aren’t loaded. For those who are, of course get the very best money can buy.