This question has likely been asked before, but I cannot readily find any threads on this topic.
What I would like to do is to operate Peco turnouts with the factory installed springs in place. In other words, I would like to throw the points with my finger, not with a separate device like a Tortoise or servo or whatever.
At the same time, I would like to have operating signals, mostly Tomar Industries, to indicate the route direction. My goal is to simplify under layout wiring. Is there a way to power the signals to change from red to green as I “hand throw” the point rails?
I’m a gadget guy and I see way to accomplish what you need. By using a .020” bronze rod in the moving point hole that the turnout motor would drive as a center pole for a switch and two like rods on either side of the center rod as the switch contacts. The spacing would be critical but should work for powering LEDs as a SPDT switch.
I can visualize making a Styrene mount to hold the bronze rods for simple installation under the turnouts. If the turnouts are not installed I would attach the “switch” to the under side of the turnout and cut a hole large enough under the turnout to clear the home brew switch.
It might take some tinkering around but that should work. Using a #76 drill bit (.020”) isn’t easy, I order them by the ten pack. .020” rod is my go to for small rods, Bronze, Brass & Steel. I’m into animation and I use .015” and .020” rods for all kinds of stuff.
I’m currently assembling this little guy for my machine shop, he really swings his hammer.
Rich: Are you using DCC control? If the answer is yes AND you are using powered frogs or power routing turnouts that are not “DCC friendly” then the solution to your answer is quite simple. Route signals typically have (after construction) three wires. One wire energizes the grenn signal, one energizes the red signal and one completes the circuit(s) by being the common. The common gets soldered (or electrically connected) to the frog, then the remaining two wires are connected to the stock rails on the point side of the turnout. With DCC the power to the signal will always be on. Be sure to use a jumper wire to be sure you have the signals/track in the right orientation before you solder them to the rails. I use use Shinohara (not Walthers/Shinohara) code 70 turnouts and this works fine for me.
That should work. Don’t forget the resistors. That will work with any power routing turnout, but will not work with Insulfrog. Electrofrog is better anyway.
Yes, I am running DCC. My current layout uses Atlas Custom Line turnouts which are not power routing. However, my plan is to build a new layout with Peco turnouts which are power routing. I do have a few Peco Insulfrogs on my layout, and they have plastic frogs, but I could just as easily purchase Electrofrogs.
I have a few of the Peco PL-13 SPDT toggles designed for use with their PL-10 switch machines. It’s possible that they could be mounted directly beneath the turnout without the switch motor. Has anyone tried that?
The point motros have fold-over tabs to secure them to the bottom of the tunout. The PL-13 looks like it just clips to the motor, I’m not sure there is anything to hold it in place. Plus it is activated by the extension tail of the wire from the motor that pokes up through the throwbar. You’d have to find some way to have a wire go down through the switch rod intot he PL-13 to move it, without falling out the bottom. The point motors themselves have no spring action, they rely on the springs already in the throwbar, so I supped you could install the motor AND PL–13, and just never hook up the motor, but that could get expensive.
Got to thinking more about this solution. Since the power source for the signal would be DCC, this would eliminated the need for my current DC power source, a series of MRC Railpower 1370 power packs that drive both the signals and the Tortoises. My concern is that I have about 60 different signal devices. What (adverse) effect will this have on DCC power consumption?
Depending on the resistor value used with the signal LEDs, you have about 10 ma per LED, with 60 LEDs that’s 600 ma of power used from the DCC system. About 1 sound loco’s worth or thereabouts. To not use DCC power would require a bit of a circuit to detect the turnout position, or the use of a switch of some sort that would be contacted by the throwbar and then used like the Tortoise contacts to control the signal LEDs with power from the DC pack.
I do like the idea of using DCC power because of its simplicity. I would welcome the opportunity to ditch the DC power packs. It doesn’t sound like the proposed arrangement would consume all that much DCC power.
I am never one to revive old threads, but two years later I am reviving this old thread of mine.
On my new layout, I have replaced my Tortoise powered Atlas Custom Line turnouts with spring loaded Peco Insulfrogs. No more Tortoises. The Peco Insulfrogs have plastic frogs so no opportunity to power them. The Insulfrog turnouts are power routing, and all three ends of every turnout are powered by feeders.
This raises the question of how to add signals to the Peco Insulfrogs. This is a DCC-powered layout, but I also have DC power sources available.
And this has always been my concern with this approach using the PECO turnout.
I only use switch machines on turnouts that would have been remotely controlled on the prototype, primarily those controlled by CTC.
All other are manually thrown.
I use sub minature slide switches as the “ground throw” and supply the necessary contacts for powering frogs and suppling signal/power routing logic.
I mount the slide switch right in the “scenery” where a switch stand would be, and after drilling a small hole in the handle, connect it to the throw bar with a “V” shaped music wire spring, and use small screwdrivers for throwing turnouts and manual uncoupling.
Well, of course, I could have purchased and used Peco Electrofrogs in which case the metal frog could be powered with the common wire, but I chose Insulfrog turnouts instead.
About the only idea I could offer is to try concealing a miniature snap-action switch (AKA Microswitch) that could be activated by the throw bar of the turnout points.
There are scores of designs of sub-miniature switches. Some have a longer actuating arm that may work better, rather than the type with a little button (as shown). You might be able to work a length of spring wire that can actuate the switch at a slight distance from the turnout. Perhaps hide the switch inside a trackside relay case or shed of some sort. **
I’ve torn apart lots of VCRs and CD players in my day and there always seemed to be several tiny micro switches in the works. I imagine you could find some pretty reasonable on eBay?
Be sure the switch is a “double-throw” so you have a contact for both normal and reverse position of the points. Some switches are only single-throw.
** If you have the room you could actually mount the switch under the roadbed and have the long actuating arm up through the roadbed where the end of the turnout point throwbar would push the arm of the switch to actuate it. Make a bracket for the microswitch so you can adjust it so it will “click” right when the throwbar pushes on it.
That’s the whole point, he is not using switch machines. He is using the built in spring in the PECO turnout and moving the points manually.
Latching relays are expensive and require more wires. The same thing is accomplished with a conventional relay and a holding circuit with push buttons.
Who cares how much power we use with the relay powered up 50% of the time, it is a model railroad, only powered up when in use?
The relays don’t care, they are continuous duty. I have seen ice cube relays last multiple decades in every day industrial use, I don’t think I will wear out any on my layout…
