Hi,
Let’s pretend for the moment that it is 1910. You are taking a passenger train from Rock Island, Geneva, Beloit, or Peoria, to Chicago. You could be on one of several different railroads. How long would the passenger cars be and typically how many cars? What locomotive would likely pull said train? Same question but it is now 1930. I’m sure I could dig around and find the answer but I am wondering if any midwestern aficiondos might know the answer. Thanks so much.
Bruno
Man, you have an imagination! 1910. Wow! Halley’s comet came that year and the heavenly spectacle was spectacular! It came in 1986 too but was a total dud! Some here at the forums may know the answers to your questions, but it is questionable. As for car lengths, many, many cars back then were wood, so likely not very long!
There were wood cars that lated well after WWII! The B&M had open=platform wood cars into the diesel era until McGinnis had them all replaced by (more) Budd RDCs. I rode a wood car on the RF&P Washington - Richmond in 1942. And there were many 70+ foot long wood cars.
Before I give you specific answers, Is your passenger going 1st class (parlor) or coach?
Pullman began building 80’ wood “Palace Cars” in the early 1890s; these included sleepers, dining cars, parlor cars and observation cars. Similar to the old HO “Pullman Palace Cars” kits once offered by MDC/Roundhouse.
Generally speaking other cars (coaches, baggage, RPOs, combines) would be shorter, like 70’ coaches and 60-67’ for baggage or RPOs. This continued to be true for heavyweight cars; lightweight streamliner cars introduced in the mid-late 1930s were often all 80’ long.
Not sure about the exact date, but 1910 is about the time the US Postal Service required that all Railway Post Office cars be all steel. Before that for a time they required that wood cars have a steel underframe. This meant that a train could often have a steel RPO with all other cars being wood.
Since the RPOs had to be steel because steel was safer in a wreck, passengers started to complain that they wanted the added safety afforded to RPO clerks, so railroads began buying heavyweight all-steel passenger cars (and rebuilding some woodsided cars that had steel underframes to being all-steel).
As Dave points out, some wood cars continued for some time after 1930 on commuter trains, as emergency fill-ins, and as “Jim Crow” cars in the South. But when the Depression hit, and rail traffic declined, railroads primarily used their most recently purchased equipment, so you’d usually see only heavyweight cars on a train during the 1930s.
Heavier all steel cars required heavier engines. In 1910 a 4-4-2 or 4-6-0 could generally pull a train of wood cars, but a train of heavyweight steel cars the same length would be too heavy. Railroads shifted mainline passenger trains to using 4-6-2s, 4-8-2s, and then 4-6-4s and 4-8-4s.
For example, Great Northern’s wooden-car Oriental Limited used 4-6-0s and later 4-6-2s to pull the train in the 1910’s-20s. But the all-heavyweight Empire Builder used 4-8-2 and 4-8-4 engines fro
Thanks. Beyond general curiousity, I am planning a small switching layout circa 1980s. I have been giving a little thought to backdating to the 1920s with maybe a 2-8-0 and/or 4-6-0 and 36’ or 40’ boxcars. Tight turns and I suspect a 80’ passenger car would not fit well. Thanks again.
Bruno
Bruce Frierdich:
A “small switching layout”! I found that could mean a whole lot of things! (Hahaha)
Over thirty years ago in the Inland Empire of Southern California I put two eight foot long boards end to end, maybe ten inches wide, and made a nice ‘switch layout’ for my garage, and I still could park my car in it. It is unknown if you are thinking of something like that or maybe a 4 x 6 board for a layout. A few years later, we moved to the High Desert, and the property owner had a nice, empty 10 x 20 shed on the it, so I made a two-track mainline around the shed, and a switching area. Sometimes I looked out the door and watched a real train pass two or three miles away! All that was fun until I went in the hospital for three and a half months!
It is not clear what railroad you plan on modeling, but if you plan on any photography, I suggest Norfolk Southern (NS), or black steam engines. Colors don’t do well in color photography and unorthodox lighting, like fluorescent. The new digital cameras work wonders, however.
As far as passenger cars, they look unnatural on model railroad curves, unless they are on big, swooping curves. But, you mentioned having a “small switching layout.”
Hope you find success in your modelling efforts!
You could do both - with two sets of rolling stock you can do your work with steam or Diesel, depending on your mood. The only real issue might come from spotting cars at industries based on 40’ or 50’ boxcars (warehouse door spacing).
Consider including John Allen’s “Timesaver” puzzle as part of your “industrial” trackage. It offers a nice challenge either to yourself, or to visitors. There are plenty of references on-line. Adding a few buildings and other scenery will make it look less like a puzzle and more like an industrial area.
Depending on the scope of your layout, passenger cars may or may not fit your operating schema. But it’s your operating schema, so you can do as you like, of course.
I was born in Wisconsin in '54 and lived there until ‘79, then lived in several states, but have lived in Illinois since ‘85. I am a fan of CNW, Soo, WC, and GBW. Not so much Milwaukee Road. So… I could go with any of those lines or my own line. I have an unfinished basement that looks like an episode of horders. I also have a roughly 10’ by 10’ office off the first floor. I am thinking a “U” shape 18" wide on two walls and 32" on middle third wall. Other wall is a closet and door. Probably industrial buildings. That’s what I am thinking today anyway… Thanks.
Bruno
One thing to keep in mind is the ubiquitous 10’-6" high 40’ boxcar didn’t come along until the mid-late 1930s. 40’ House cars (boxcars, reefers, stock cars) built before that were normally 8’-6" high. Walthers made a large number of those type of cars in the 1980s-90s after they bought the old TrainMiniatures line. They have done some of them more recently, but the old ones turn up online and at RR fleamarkets (as do the old TM ones).
Depends more on the coupler connections. An 80’ Athearn or AHM/Rivarossi car with truck mounted couplers will do an 18"R curve, a 60’ car with body mounted couplers might have trouble going below 24"R. Plus, heavyweight coaches often were 70’ long; RPOs and baggage cars were often a bit shorter than that.
Prior to 1956, the C&NW ran commuter trains (scoots) with 4-6-2 and 4-4-2 steam power often pulling short 60’ monitor (clerestory) roof coaches and combines. I recall Rivarossi offered some of the latter.
Let’s not forget the original dimensions of South Shore’s coaches and combines. They had a standard steam road cross-section but were 60 and 61 feet long.
Bruno: YYou need to figure out the end goal of your layout. Space limitations, environment (Heating or cooling). Your comfort level… your carpentery skills, and budget. Next your GAGE, and area of interests. Gauge depeendsd on your personal skill lkeve, and your manual dexterity. Do you build, or BUY (OTC, ready-made, orwhat?) Most important issuye will be BUDGET! Model rairoiading will cost, more so these days. IMHO. [Married, bhow close to divorce are ouy? Single, keep your checkbook, and wallet at high port.
Through the years, UI’ve built and run several layouts, from American Flyer to HO, O, and TT. Lots of fun, but these days, I read.
Back in the day, John ALLEN, was my muse; and MR was goal…Not so much now.
Good Luck, and Success to you, Bruno! 
Rock Island is across the state, on the Mississippi river. It’s not not really close enough to be served by Chicago commuter trains. The other three, OK. So it kinda depends which one exactly.
Thanks Guys!
I had acquired a ton of HO Scale locomotives, rolling stock, buildings, vehicles, etc. with an emphasis on '50s era and 80-90s era. I am in the process of selling off all of the '50s era stuff and thinning the rest. I have skills and $ to build a medium sized layout in the basement at some point but I am leaning toward a smaller layout in our spare bedroom/office. If I had it to do over again, I’d probably go with N scale but even after selling a bunch of '50s era stuff and thinning my more modern stuff, I still have well-more than I need. (I am selling through Midwest Rail Junction in Rockford and am not trying to sell through this forum.). I really like Lance Mindheim’s models and hope to do something along those lines. (Yes, pun intended.). I was also impressed by the Washington Northern. So, net is no early steam - fires dampened – and most likely some industries, a small downtown area, and a few 4 axle locomotives in my own proto-freelanced scheme. No passenger service. Thanks again.
Bruno
Hi Stix,
Was not thinking commuter trains - was thinking intercity trains when trains were still a good option for travel. (And yes, having lived most of my life in northern IL, I know where Rock Island is… :). Thanks.
Bruno
I clearly remember my mother telling me that Halley’s Comet was not as impressive in 1986 as in 1910, while she was actually looking at it in 1986!
Peter
Feature that world wide background light around the Earth was a primary cause of 1986 being lackluster compared to 1910. As well as a world population that had grown accustomed to various kinds of ‘light shows’ that were of higher intensity that what the comet could provide.
If I remember correctly, there were two comets in 1910. The first one was unpredicted and could be seen in bright daylight. Months later, Halley’s Comet came, but was not as bright. Many older people refer to the brightness of Halley’s Comet when they actually are referring to the earlier one.
I may check online about those comets. I don’t know if there are any photos.
Don’t shoot me if I’m wrong about this. [:D]
I think I remember a comet or two from my younger days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_182#/media/File:WendtPSA.jpg