With normal switches, the straight route is closed. Thrown is the diverging route.
With Wye turnouts which direction is closed?
Whichever route the railroad decides.
Actually, same is true of any turnout. Railroads don’t care about the geometry, it is route priority that decides.
Same with curved turnouts.
Now, we know that when railroads need the curved route thru a turnout to be high speed, they have lots of technology for that, closing frogs, very large turnout size, special guardrails, etc.
Do they prefer the primary route to be straight? Yes, but just like our model layouts, that is not always practical or possible.
Sheldon
Good answer. +1
Rich
CTC panels identify the turnout positions as N and R, presumably normal and reversed.
Yes, “Normal” is the primary route and the position the turnout should be returned to after taking the “Reversed” route.
But Normal and Reversed has nothing to do with the geometry, the “normal” position can be the “curved” route.
Sheldon
None of the above.
Railroads don’t use those terms.
Switches are normal or reverse. Typically normal is the straight route and reverse is the diverging route.
With an equilateral switch (wye) they will designate one route or the other as normal. Depends on where it is used. For example if it’s a high speed switch at the end of two main tracks, typically “normal” will be for whatever hand running is on the two main tracks. If it’s right hand running then they may have “normal” as single track to the right main track. Otherwise they will have normal be the most used or through route. If the main track is on the ledt route, then left is normal. If the main track is on the right route, then right is normal.
Some railroads physically designated the points in the field:
I have some 3" tall N and R cast iron letters that came off an abandoned New York Central turnout.
I still despise the nomenclature that Digitrax likes to use ‘thrown or closed’ for customizing their products. To me it is quite arbritary. On my layout I use normal/reverse and have never had any problems with orientation.
Good Luck, Ed
This will make flag type switches, and dawrf signals confusing. Red is Reverse/
Thrown, while Green is normal/Closed.
I guess you cant use color type semaphors for Wyes
Not sure I understand
Sheldon
Let’s say an Engineer is on the track and he’s approaching a Wye switch. He’s gotta look at some signal apsect to determine if the switch is right or left.
OK, but real railroading does not work that way. If there is a dwarf signal as the Engineer approaches a facing point turnout, the engineer already knows which route is “Normal”, the signal simply confirms the position, it does not define the position.
I take from your question and comment that you want an operator who does not know the railroad/layout to know from a signal (switchstand) which route is indicated?
If the turnout is too far away for visual observation, then I don’t have an answer for you. And if the operator does not know the layout, how does he know where he is headed anyway?
My “view” of model railroading includes control panels with track diagrams which help with this sort of thing. On my layout, assuming this is signaled mainline trackage, a nearby tower panel will have a track diagram and a lighted pushbutton will indicate which “route” on the "m
If the wye is on a main track governed by interlocking signals and switches, I believe that generally the switches will remain in the position last used until the operator or dispatcher sets up for a specific movement. Then the switches will be thrown and signals displayed.
If the wye is on a non-main track (as many are), part of a yard, then there may be no “normal position of switches”, or, there may be a timetable special instruction specifying which route the switches should be restored to after use.
I can remember a couple of wyes (from the old days, now gone) at Putnam Junction (Brewster NY) and in Croton-Harmon yard that had a spring switch on “the tail”. If you were turning an engine, you generally entered from one leg, backed over the spring switch, and then pulled ahead on the other leg.
i’ve wondered why the track board below (for Sand Patch, PA) are not drawn straight, why they have the diagnonal “kinks”. For example, the 3rd switch from the left, the one after the crossover for what i believe is a pocket for a pusher coming from the right to back into to return to the right.
it seems to me that drawn that way makes clear that the diverging (Reverse) route is into the pocket
however, it’s not clear how the lower right switch is aligned. Does it mean that the Reverse route is to the upper hoirzontal track because the points are aligned with a diagonal line, that the Normal route is always in-line with the points
also, are tracks for a crossover alway spaced closely together? why couldn’t the lower track on the left have been aligned with the lower track below the loco pocket and the crossover have been made longer?
is the track board trying to precisely depict the actual geometry around the turnouts
Greg, my understanding is that some effort is made to make the primary route thru the turnout appear as the straight route on the CTC panel. But obviously the CTC diagram is “straight line” representation of the whole section in question.
I think there is/was an effort to keep parallel tracks the same distance apart on the diagram.
In drafting we are taught all sorts of “rules”, then we are told that if breaking a rule makes the drawing easier to understand, break the rule.
I think CTC panel track plans are the same way, no hard rules, just guidlines of design that have worked and are clear to the users.
Even though I don’t use the traditional CTC controls, I set my tower and CTC panels up like a prototype panel. But I put my lighted pushbuttons and my indicator lights right in the track diagram.
So the turnout controls actually create a lighted “map” of the route that is set.
Sheldon
Incorrect. There is always a “normal” position that will be indicated by the position of the switch stand.
However on yard and other non-main tracks it may be permissable by the rules to leave a switch in reverse position.
Almost certainly it is trying to show the correct diverging positions of turnouts. However nothing will be drawn “to scale”. Just to show the straight and diverging routes.
Short answer, no. The CTC and interlocking diagrams are schematics. They are drawn for operational clarity, but are not to scale and may not reflect the exact physical relationship in either alignment or proximity.
how does the operator know which switch route is “Reverse”?
what does “proximity” mean? that the switches on the diagram are not in the same order left-to-right order as the USS machine?
No, it means the distances between them are compressed and may not be proportional to real life.
It also means a turnout shown as a conventional “left hand” turnout with the straight route being “normal”, may in fact be a curved turnout with the route to the right, or outer route, being “normal”.
Sheldon
Typically the normal route is drawn as the straight route and the reverse route is drawn as the diverging route.
Proximity: the state of being near someone or something in distance or time
The switches may be displayed in close sequence on the board but be miles apart in real life.