Remembering the Third Avenue Elevated

The New-York-City-only coupler is by Westinghouse, and was introduced by the Composites, see earlier photo above, in 1904 and continued well into the post WWII period, see below with an A-Division (IRT) Flushing-Line R=33 MUed ahead of a B-Division (IND-BMT) R32 on the F=and-G-lines’ stricture on Brooklyn’s 9th Street.

But the latest post-2000 cars appear to have a heavy-duty Tomlinson-type.

But they put Westinghouse on the “restored” Brooklyn United cara in the museum and used on occasion for Nostalgia trips. (Van Dorns were their service couplers.)


More and more amazing.

I have to ask, is there any reason they didn’t use Janney couplers like the regular railroads did? Just not practical for elevated or subway use?

The Van Dorn is a radial coupler, not dependent on car alignment to stay coupled. The link works (sort of) on the Janney principle, with springs pushing it onto the pin in the receiving coupler. Lines that used radial MCBs (North Shore, Illinois Terminal) often used an extended knuckle to compensate for vertical changes, a feature not required by Van Dorns which were (usually) set up with vertical springs as well as the buffer springs on the drawbar.

I see, all-in-all the Van Dorns, and I guess variants, were a lot more practical for transit use than the Janney types were.

Thanks!

Janney couplers are relatively complex and heavy and are remarkably susceptible to vertical separation – something transit equipment often tries to induce. Their greater draft strength is of less concern with MU consists, and a relatively long history of difficulty getting them to work with make-and-break integrated air and electrics (vs. even Miller couplers/anticlimbers, let alone Scharfenberg couplers) tells me the idea of locking transverse positive location has advantages where integrated coupling is concerned. That advantage becomes greater when the coupled ‘unit’ needs to accommodate the horizontal, vertical, and twist motions common to most transit operation.

As noted, most of the actual coupling and uncoupling into consists is done in yards, where the relative convenience of rapid separation is less significant, and manual radial alignment when necessary is less critical.

As I said Friday, I’m getting an education here.

Thanks all!

While we are on the subject of education, some is badly needed over on MR in the broad-gauge modeling thread. I have been reading too many tank model-kit boxes and books that discuss Soviet strategy in assigning weapon caliber so that their guns could purportedly fire captured ammunition in a pinch, but enemy guns would wear prematurely or burst if Soviet ammunition were tried. This was ‘of a piece’ with other Soviet military cunning so I believed the preponderance of the evidence, but Kevin diplomatically but firmly says he doesn’t think it’s so. As this is one of your fields you might want to weigh in with definitives.

The Russian five-foot-gauge-as-defensive-strategy story is certainly well embedded in railway folklore. Personally I don’t think it’s any more valid than the idea that the states of the Confederacy adopted five foot gauge for the same reasons. The contractors who built the first Russian railways in the 1840s were mostly American, but they built them well before the idea of using railways for strategic purposes developed. Gauges were far from standardized, and five foot gauge was found in pockets all over North America, along with wider and narrower gauges in the U.K. and elsewhere.

The Stearns & Ward coupler was also used in conjunction with a central buffer on the Central London tube line until sometime in the 1930s. The Central London was built by Americans including Charles Tyson Yerkes, who left Chicago ahead of a corruption investigation involving streetcar and L properties in Chicago. The American heritage on the Central London Tube persists today as the carriages are referred to as “cars”.

Think this was built new as a utility car for the elevated lines and not converted from passenger equipment.

I’ve never heard any of that.

The Russians, like most military establishments, had their own way of doing things. Not necessarily right or wrong, just different. And when you take a look at it, a five-foot gauge makes a bit more sense (to me at least) than 4’8.5" does, it would certainly make for a lot more versatility in motive power and rolling stock.

And sometimes as far as ammunition useage (or not) the reverse it true. The Finns for example built all their infantry small arms in Russian calibers, the idea being they could use captured Russian ammunition in case of a war. Talk about cocky self-confidence!

However, this is NOT to say that on the Eastern Front during WW2 the Russians and the Germans didn’t make use of captured military equipment, they certainly did, both artillery and to a lesser extent tanks. Interestingly, Russian tankers who were issued captured German Panther tanks didn’t like them at all. They DID like American Lend-Lease Shermans, finding them very easy to drive and very roomy and comfortable to ride and live in.

Even more interesting, the Germans used some captured Shermans as part of the last-ditch defense of the Reich, and t

Finally found a negative taken south from the northbound platform of the 3rd Av. % 84th Street Station, the elevated station and platform I used mst frequently in my teen-age railfan days. Arriving northbound local has the wood originally open-platform cars rebuilt with vestibules and sliding mu-controlled doors. the cars that provided most of the service. Lucky that not much electronic-darkroom repair work was needed:

Correction frm Timz: 67th, not 84th!

David, I couldn’t help but notice the skyline in the photograph. About two weeks ago we were driving east on Route 3 up in Rutherford New Jersey, pointing towards New York, and we were both shocked at how much the skyline’s changed in the past 33 years. We recognized the Empire State Building, and the new Freedom Tower, but that’s all!

Finally found and have scanned a good negative of the front of the 99th Street shop as seen from a passing elevated train. I believe this was the very last shop but one, in the World, devoted exclusively to repair of wood-bodied railway passenger equipment:

That must be the 67th St station – the bldg at right (with the chimney) seems to still exist, on the SE corner of Lexington and 63rd St. You can see the Ritz Tower peeking out behind it, at Park Ave and 57th St.

I took the photo 72 or 72 years ago, and the most recent time that I was in either neighborhod was 26 years ago. Thus, I must give you credit for correcting me.

My problem now is that I cannot figure out why I used that station. Possibly connecting to or from the 66th Street crosstown bus.

Used 84th frequently.

Looking suth from 57th Street:

Junction for the upeer level (ruch-hour express) tracjs to the Bergan Avenue cut[off connection to the Bronx Park and White Plains Road line for the rush=hour Freeman Street trains/

At 150th Street, where 3rd Avenue makes a curve and Boston Road starts with the straight path:

liioking aouth from149yh

Were the headways often that close? It looks like the signal is already in the middle position.

The signal is red. The IRT did not use the usual signal positions. The view is from the rear of the triain.

david klepper <ddaveklepper1@gmail.com>