Some where long the way I picked up a Santa Fe F7 dummy in yellow and blue paint. This is the scheme from the 60’s and 70’s. This unit has 2 nose lights. All the pictures I can find have only one. Did Santa Fe have any with 2 lights? Any help would be great.
RMax
Two lights on “Warbonnet” locos, (built originally for passenger service).
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=16624
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=82570
Freight paint scheme, single light
That is exactly what I found. All the freight F’s had single lights and all the passenger F’s had dual. Now I understand the rivet counters! Seems manufactures just throw anything out there and call it acceptable. Here is a perfectly good body with a glaring mistake unless there are some F’s out there hiding like this. I have modeled aircraft and armor and you would almost never see anything like this. I’m sure the manufacture probably used the same shell for both the passenger and freight F’s in their line and said “It’s an F”. Saves on the cost of making another mold. I’ll just repaint the body into G&W “Generic and Western” colors use the frame else where. Thanks for the confirmation!
RMax
It depends on the manufacturer and when the model was made. Some companies like Athearn weren’t too concerned on getting things exactly right, and since their products were normally not expensive, most modellers were OK with either using them ‘as is’ or adding details themselves. In recent years Athearn (and other builders) have gotten better about things like that. Their blue box F7 is still a generic F7 A-units come with either one or two headlights, and they usually are pretty careful now to get it right.
FWIW I picked up an A-B set of Athearn New York Central F7 bodies at a flea market that had two headlights (which the NYC never had, even on passenger units) on the A unit. I was able to fill in the lower headlight opening and paint over it and it came OK, but then it was in the ‘freight’ black scheme so was pretty easy to match the paint.
That’s got to drive some people absolutely nuts. I am not overly picky. I have no problem changing road numbers and adding a few details. I have been buying F shells to play with and change out. Usually I can get them for a buck or so. I’ll add the dress up kit and try to match the prototype as best I can. Most locomotives I can find pictures fairly easy and go from there. A couple of manufactures numbered every F they made regardless of road as 4015! lol It isn’t hard to figure out that Santa Fe if they had a 4015 it was most likely an SD39 and Conrail’s 4015 was an E8. OR since I can’t find picture of either one who knows. Tyco’s 4015 is a model number and everything regardless of road is numbered 4015. I have Athearn, Bachmann and Tyco shells and there is a little weirdness with all of them. They make great parts to kitbash if they are not too weird.
I am still trying to figure out my Sante Fe C-liner but that’s another story! Great track testing loco.
RMax
I’m guessing, based on your description of the paint scheme, you have the classic Athearn F7 (possibly road number 271C). It looks like this:
This paint scheme is accurate. But this was a very late and somewhat experimental scheme started in the 1970s.
However, since you mention the 1960s, maybe you mean the “cigar band” freight scheme which actually started in the mid 1950s. It looks like this:
Or maybe you might even mean the early “cat whisker” scheme, which looks like this:
Regardless of the paint scheme, you are correct that Santa Fe freight F units had a single headlight. Santa Fe passenger F units had two. On the passenger F units, the upper housing was a mars style light. The headlight was in the lower housing. Santa Fe freight F units did not have a mars style light.
And the headlight is not the only issue with the Athearn F7. The Athearn model has steam generator exhausts on the roof. Santa Fe passenger A units did not have steam generators. Only the B units had steam generators. And Santa Fe freight F units didn’t have them in either the A or B units. So the model is not accurate.
If you want to get more complicated, Santa Fe had passenger F units called dual service units. They were geared for freight and slower passenger service. So you could see them pulling freight trains. And they had two headlight housings. But they wore the passenger red warbonnet scheme. And although some did
RMax, you raise a very good issue.
There are the rivet counters at one extreme and the undemanding hobbyists at the other extreme. But, somewhere in the middle are the rest of us who would like to think that the locomotives and rolling stock (passenger and freight) that we are running on our layouts reflect the prototype. How much trouble, in terms of time and cost, would it be for the manufacturer to do it right in the first place?
Rich
Matt that is very helpful. I just recently started messing around with this. For me this is the best part of the hobby, finding out a little history. I bought 2 Proto 1000 F3’s for $20 each a while back and thought I would find some F7’s to go along with them. I knew I had a bunch of shells and some were in the Santa Fe freight scheme. I like to do some background research before doing a project. Went to fallenflags.com and noticed everything had one head light. The shells I have are in the cigar band scheme. Now I know that what I am going to want is the Genesis F7’s to go along with them.
I have another question or two that maybe you might know. Both of my F3’s are numbered 200c. The only thing I should have to do is change the number board to 200a on one of them and and I should be good? 200b was the b unit and I will be one the look out for one of those. From what I remember reading Santa Fe only had one set of F3’s in freight scheme?
Matt thank you for your help!!!
RMax
Rich
This drives me nutz. Since I model a little bit of everything and my layout is very generic (the Generic and Western, somewhere in north central Texas subdivision) I am a little more tolerant of weirdness. Some how I end up with all kinds of things, some I buy (my fault… lol) and some end up here who knows how. I bought a Bachmann DCC system and it came with a Santa Fe GP40 in the package. Santa Fe only had one GP40 and it was 2964. The Bachmann GP40 was numbered 3502. The 3502 was a GP38. No big deal to renumber and paint the trucks. I waited a long time for Amtrak Proto 2000 E8’s to be reissued. I bought 2 of them. Almost all the Amtrak E’s have porthole weirdness. Glad my layout is generic because the Proto 2000 E’s are too! Little expensive for generic in my opinion. I understand it is expensive to make unique loco’s and for the masses to be generic is probably a wiser move. In my collection of weirdness are two Santa Fe SD35’s and a C-liner, none of them ever existed. I have a BN F9 mutation. The list seems to go on. It’s all good I am having fun with them. I do wish that the manufactures would be a lot more careful when they produce items. They do not have to be perfect to the bolt or nut but there are some things that just do not make sense.
RMax
Along those same lines, I would add another issue. Sometimes, no matter how faithful the model is to the prototype, it is often somewhere between difficult and impossible to find the right loco for the right time period. So, I sometimes have to be buy a loco for a road name that I need which is not the correct loco for the time period I model, simply because that is all that is available.
Rich
I too have had the time period issues. The nice thing about the bottom part of my layout is that it is a very generic sorta Texas look. I can run anything western on it and it doesn’t look really odd. I have sets for the early 70’s, early 80’s and modern. Being not a natural or native railroad person I first found which railroads interacted with each other and what time frames. Then I grouped loco’s and rolling stock together. So one night may be early 70’s MKT night with a little Santa Fe and Amtrak phase I. The next night could BN or something else. The top of my layout is a switching setup. It’s freelance also. Every once in a while my Southern E8 shows up there(It’s been lost for a long time now, looking for the torpedo tubes that Lifelike forgot to put on it). I have an SD70 that shows up. THEN there I just say what ever and throw anything up there. But matching cars and loco’s to time frames will drive some people completely crazy. Seems railroading is always changing.
RMax
A correction I need to make.
Only two sets of F3’s were purchased by the Santa Fe for freight service. Locomotives 200LABC and 201LABC were delivered in October and November 1948 just before EMD shifted production to the F7. Santa Fe had concentrated on early F3 purchases for use as passenger locomotives in order to dieselize all of the remaining major passenger trains on the system and by the time that was accomplished, the F7 was ready to enter production.
RMax
I just looked at the Genesis F7 Santa Fe units and they are very nice. Being stuck in the middle is the hardest part of this hobby. While I was on the site I looked at the RTR F7’s too. While they are are wrong you can still buy 4 sets of them for 1 Genesis. Of course you need to deduct for DCC and Sound. So it’s more like 2 to 1. Splurge for the details and better quality? In this case it is a lot of money but if you are modeling this seriously it is most likely worth it. It’s stupid and genius at the same time. It forces you to buy the Genesis product if you are really into this part of the hobby or it makes you feel weird knowing that the trains running around the track are not right. Live with whatever you feel comfortable with I guess.
RMax
I have an older set (2003) of the Athearn Genesis F7ABBA Waronnets (passenger).
If you are thinking about those Genesis units, think no more. Buy them.
I own very little in the Athearn Genesis line, but when it comes to diesels, they make a great product.
Rich
The 200a numberboard would display 200. No “a” displayed. So, if possible, you should renumber one of them to 200. Only the “c” was displayed in numberboards. So 200C would be in the numberboards.
And Genesis F units are simply stunning to look at. They rival some brass models. The key is the Highliner shell Athearn uses. Probably the best F unit shell ever made in HO scale.
Here’s a photo I found that shows my Santa Fe passenger F3s and freight F7s…both Athearn Genesis products:
Thanks Matt,
That should make it even easier. Those Genesis F’s do look nice and the layout looks like the videos I have seen of places in New Mexico. I have been watching some stuff around Abo Canyon.
RMax
This subject interests me, so I did some additional research.
I found lots of photos on the Internet showing F7s with dual headlights hauling freight. Here is an example.
http://www.railpixs.com/atsf2/ATSF335_EagleLakeTx_June76a.jpg
Another interesting point is that the Highliner produces kits to modify its F7 shell to match the prototype. Here is a link.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/328-1001
So, it seems to me that the OP should be able to reproduce the prototype with lots of prototypical detail if he desires to do so.
Rich
Rich,
I think those F’s are dual service units. They are also known as Blue Bonnets. There are also Yellow Bonnets. From what I gather after Amtrak’s arrival Santa Fe had extra passenger F7’s and they started using some of them for freight.
RMax
RMax,
Which are you looking for?
Single headlamp freight F7A’s ?
Blue Bonnet?
Yellow Bonnet?
Time frame?
Rich
Rich,
The photo you posted shows a former passenger loco. Note the stainless steel side panels.
After Amtrak took over in 1971 Santa Fe had a lot of surplus F units from the passenger pool. So they experimented with different paint schemes to apply to these former passenger locos. The first link of #335 is a Blue Bonnet.
Eventually all but a handful were converted into CF7s. That’s why there are (except for the AB lashup in Sacramento) virtually no surviving Santa Fe F units today.
RMax is looking for a Santa Fe freight F7. Those would have a single headlight. Time frame I’m guessing is the mid 1950s to the 1960s, or the “Cigar Band” paint scheme era.
Unfortunately Athearn Genesis has not issued a cigar band freight F7 for quite some time. I have an ABBA (#217LABC). But it took me forever to find the two AB sets as I got them several years after they were initially released. True there are other brands out there, but in my opinion nothing beats the Athearn Genesis shell and factory paint…at least the paint on their Santa Fe models. Others may beat Athearn’s motor, but they can’t compete with the shell.