Because that is how the prototype does it.
David B
Well, the prototype also puts diesel fuel in the fuel tanks, but I’m not about to do that!
While the coupers do look nice, there is not any benefit to change from the Kadee coupler. Why would anyone want to go through the hassle of having to align the coupler and make sure at least one of the knuckles is open? Then the new coupler won’t mate with anything else?
Makes no sense to me…
It is not meant for everyone. It is for a different type of modeler.
There was a time when X2F couplers ruled the roost…then came along a little company called Kadee that introduced a line of knuckle couplers. No, they were not directly compatible (albeit possible with modifications) with the X2F, but they looked more realistic.
I submit to you that this is the next step in coupler technology. One step beyond the Kadee. I have to hand it to a company that said “No, we will not compromise to make every modeler happy, but rather cater to the ones who have the desire for a realistic coupler”.
In terms of diesel fuel, there is a distinct possibility that through DCC, you will be able to regulate how long a loco operates before refueling is required. This already exists in the Slot Car industry.
David B
thanks for the review. i too would like to buy some to try out ,they are so nice in appearance and i like the fact they are more realistic. the kadees are good but not perfect, even coupling on a slight curve can be a bugaboo. btw nice alco!
I have a couple dozen cars (out of 400+) that have centering springs that don’t work anymore (to be fixed as time permits, maybe). We use skewers to couple and uncouple and actually like the broken springs as the cars easier to couple on curves and have even considered removing all the centering springs
David, in your first photo, what are those springs for? The shank style of the coupler looks very similar to that of the Kadee #8 - for these, the centering spring fits into the slot in the shank, between the pivot post and the head of the coupler. It looks to me like you may have the option of using the spring or not.
Wayne
Those springs are optional and are for creating resistance between the mounting peg and the neck. The same effect can be had with tightening/loosening the screw.
David B
Well,well, A member actually mentioning a coupler other than kadee, how did this happen ? I almost thought it was forbidden to mention anything but kaydee on this forum, A good review of the sergent system (pro & con) They seem to be a good system, they look good, and seem to do what they represent, but they do not provide needs to every modeller.
I am not a fan of ANY coupler system in HO, I feel there is a lot of work to be done in perfecting a complete coupling system for all circumstances, laugh as you may, but those big brute knuckle couplers on those giant Lionel trains sure seemed to work well and you could even shunt cars down the track, the sergent coupler is well on the way to perfecting a workable coupler for the future, and the company that does, will be a standard product, I still can’t get used to see grown men sticking a bamboo skewer between boxcars at a train show.
Yes,a most interesting review,but I doubt I shall change from K/D whiskers any day soon,I’ve spent enough coverting to them!!!
Steve
David - While I appreciate the review, I really don’t understand why anyone who likes to operate, would use them.
Your comment makes me wonder what kind of modeler I am. I like to consider myself a pretty good prototype modeler, but now I wonder if the same kind of pressure will be placed on someone who doesn’t use these couplers that is placed on those who don’t use DCC.
What kind of modeler are you? Obviously different than me!
My current layout that’s under construction is DC with walk-around throttles. Don’t have to worry about simulated fuel stops with that! This is from someone who has installed over 1300 decoders…
Thanks for the review anyway David, I know the topic got a little off the original subject but I have always wondered how these worked, and figured they aren’t for everybody. I am really a stickler for how exact something can look in a scale model though so these particular couplers always interested me. If I were in HO I would probably try them on a couple of cars I would keep together just to try them out.
David B sez:
There was a time when X2F couplers ruled the roost…then came along a little company called Kadee that introduced a line of knuckle couplers. No, they were not directly compatible (albeit possible with modifications) with the X2F, but they looked more realistic.
Kadee was actually making knuckle style couplers before they came up with what they initially called “Magnematic” couplers. Their original couplers used a mechanical ramp to open the knuckle. IIRC, MDC also had a mechanically operated knuckle coupler and then there was the Mantua look coupler and the Baker coupler (used extensively by John Allen).
I haven’t tried Sergents, but they look sufficiently interesting for freight operation that I may try some. I have no objection to playing Andre The Giant (Brakeman). It wouldn’t be significantly different from using the giant skewer to open Kadee knuckles. Actually, given that the Sergent “skewer” is a magnetic wand, it might be easier.
Andre
David,
I have spent this weekend and the last to convert my narrow gauge cars and steamers to Sergent Engineering. I model dual gauge in Alamosa. I planned to use Kadee couplers and under the track magnets for both the standard and narrow gauge. This was more complicated than I expected. You have to use either two magnets or a movable magnet to uncouple the narrow gauge and standard gauge cars.
Sergent Engineering solved the problem for me. I decided to use them for the narrow gauge andcontinue with Kadees and magnets on the standard gauge.
I like the look of their couplers. Their couplers looks like the real thing. Narrow gauge Kadees doesn’t look very good. The biggest differens is on the pilot or plow of steam engins. I can now have couplers that look great and operate.
I didn’t buy the assembly jig. It looks like a good idée but I have learned to build them without it. I have built about 60 couplers now.
Roland Levin
STockholm, Sweden
David,
Nice review and good info. They do look good. On my first layout (I was 12) I had dummy couplers (they came with all the Varney kits my dad built when I was younger). I never did use X2F couplers, went right to Kadee (don’t you wish people would spell that right?).
The Sergent is a great idea for those into that fine detail, intimate operation stuff and again, thanks for sharing you test data.
For me, I won’t even use the Kadee or clone scale couplers, They actuclly have more slack action then the regular Kadee and a poor gathering range on NMRA standard track. No clones either ALL Kadee on my layout.
I’m sure lots of detail freaks (I was one years ago) will love the Sergent.
Sheldon
You can’t go wrong with Kadee. They will also work will 95% of the couplers out there. IMO they are the only choise. Can you imagine having to get up and move every coupler to align them. Then have to get out the stick and try using a magnet to suck up a small ball while then flicking your wrist to open up the closed coupler. What about Walthers, E-Z mate., SceneMaster, Proto 2000, What I really like is those new REAL RUBBER air lines. Now that is a good looking product.
David
Thanks for the review, I’ve often wondered about compatibility and how they work, now I have the answer. This hobby is somewhat about compromise, we try to make things as realistic as possible but something always seems to interfere. I too belong to a Free-Mo group and we use skewers to uncouple, no big deal, its effective, easy and I can uncouple exactly where the cars needs to go (spot 4 on a 7 spot tank car unloading facility). Unless you’re just going to run them in circles, operations require uncoupling and coupling. I don’t always think the under the track magnetic uncouplers are the best solution either, not in all situations. The idea of lining the SE couplers up to couple doesn’t sound all that bad either. My biggest problem is that I’m building a home layout soon and I will (hopefully) stay active in Free-Mo so I will probably stay with Kadee for now sinc ethe rolling stock will be used on both.
Ricky
David,
Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts about the Sergent couplers, you beat me to it. I’ve been messing with these for a while, I’ve no layout ,so I can’t give real world operation performance data. I really like how this coupler works and looks, so when I do design a layout in the future, I’ll be certain to make it possible for me to reach where I need to in order to uncouple cars and such.
To everyone else,
Please remember that David is not trying to convert you from Kadee or whatever brand you use to Sergent couplers. If you’re happy using whatever it is you’re using that’s great, but don’t feel like anyone is twisting your arm to go out and buy anything you don’t want. Also, Kadee and Sergent’s aren’t compatible! True you can get them to couple, but then the functionality of their design is rendered useless when you mix them, so there is no point in doing so.
Like David, I took a flyer on buying Sergents three or four years ago. After I first tried them, I said I wouldn’t buy KDs for myself again and I haven’t and that is because I like them for the same reasons as David. Every new car I build gets the Sergents. The looks alone were worth it. I will admit that for the established modeller who has a couple hundred cars with KDs and a regularly used layout it is not feasible, but for those just starting out or not heavily invested or tied to KDs it is certainly worth looking into. Slowly as money is available I order more.
I do belong to a club and I have a set of cars that I haven’t converted yet and am in no hurry to do so. This allows me to run some equipment on our Freemo based club layout during shows. And If I do bring the Sergent equipped cars, it is for a short time and I don’t leave them on the layout. More for discussion purposes with other modellers
I also did the same type of trial with P:87 wheels too. I’m not fully sold on those yet as it requires some extra work at the turnouts but boy do tank cars and covered hoppers look nice with them
As well as some non-Detail freaks. To me, and as is pointed out in the review, they feel like there;s more grip and a sturdier coupling. Having done a few tests, I can prove this. They tend to hold a tad bit better if your couplers are slightly out of guage than do Kadees, but you can slide them apart vertically if you are engough out of gauge. If they are this out of gauge, you have a larger problem than the coupler. Moral is, they aren’t foolproof, gauge your couplers. But having gravity and not a spring helps alot.
And the club coupelr argument is a fair one. (too lazy to go back and requote) But here’s an aditional. I don’t leave rolling stock on the NWR club. My stuff oesn;t fit the era (look at sig, can you tell?) and I’m not there regularly enough. If I want to switch cars, and I do sometimes do as such, I switch the club cars instead of risking lose/leaving a car on the layout for months on end. Which is probably most of the reason why club operations is round and round. IF I leave a car or cars of mine on the layout, it’s either for a photo story such as picking up cars for an excursion or a wheelset/coupler/etc broke and I’m sitckinng it on a siding for maintenececrew to come out and fix it to take it back to the shop. Engine issues can be solved with a dual coupler car as needed: freight=Transfer caboose/rider car; Passenger=Head End Express, RPO, or combine as desired. for Modern freight, you may need to dedicate a boxcar for club useage, or leave the engines most likely to be run there on the other coupler.
Great review of the Sergents.
Ok, Ill bite…
I am the type of modeler who kitbashes, paints and enjoyes every aspect of this hobby.
I am the type of modeler who likes realistic operations.
I am the type of modeler who wont wait for a company to produce my favorite locos and cars (as I will bash my own).
I am the type of modeler that is never complacent in where I am and am looking for ways to grow and explore this great hobby.
I am the type of modeler that believes in a sharing of ideas and techniques.
I am the type of modeler that pays back because I was helped out years ago.
I am Canadian. (sorry, couldnt resist)
David B