David - We sound very similar as I also build, paint, scratch, bash, to get what I want. Operations, I love, but I feel the Sargents will make this a bit more difficult. That is my concern with this and I hope someone can show me that I’m wrong. I feel like it’s sacrificing one thing to achieve another.
I also give back to the hobby by doing clinics on painting, decaling and weathering. I have done numerous clinics on this subject, including NMRA Divisional and regional meets.
David, don’t worry, I forgive you about being Canadian! [swg]
While in operation, how well do they couple? Can you do a gentle couple, or do you have to slam into the cars to get them the couple… Basically- are the couplers stiff or do they open and close flawlessly?
I like the idea of even having to fiddle with the stick if I had to–I’m in N scale so what do I know LOL!–but to keep it in topic, the prototypes do end up fiddling with their couplers especially trying to get them sometimes to couple.
As for the refueling that just got me thinking–we service the locos, why not-----
Is there such a thing as a flawless coupler in real life?
Like others have said, even in real life they might have to try for a hand shake more than once. With the SE couplers, I have found that they coupler about 90% of the time without an issue, the other 10% you need to see if you didnt align them properly.
Precisely. I took video back in '99 when a group of us drove 16 hours straight from here to Chama, NM and chartered a caboose ride on the Cumbres and Toltec. We were aboard the caboose when the locomotive was turned and had to switch the caboose around in order to get it back on the rear of the train for the return trip. the engineer backed up flawlessly, but the brakeman didn’t have the coupler lined up perfectly, so no joy.
I LIKE the fact that these couplers operate more like the real thing. I do think that it would perhaps be possible to have the couplers operate via the cut levers IF someone could machine a cut lever to take the place of the ball bearing. If the cut lever extended through the top of the coupler to connect to the cut bar, one would only have to operate the cut lever from either side of the car. With the brass brackets that are out there, plus wire cut bars, it could be done with a bit of work.
Food for thought, anyway. [:)]
Thanks for the review…now I’m gonna have to order some to try.
Thanks for the informative review. I had looked at the Sergent website and thought: “These look very cool compared to KDs,” but wondered about functionality.
Harold/David:
Are there any problems using both accumate style draft gear and KD draft gear Sargent couplers in a fleet…when coupling/uncoupling the two types together?
If I’m reading the Sergrent Site right, they hve cut-lever option couplers. Look here under the products>>coupler page. But they are bottom operating, and the levers need to be bought seperately.
Hmm, I considered these in the past but had a lot of locos/cars to switch out, most of which I had switched to Kadees (from the various other brands, NONE of which work as well as real Kadees). I might be an ideal fit here now - I like operations, I build no more than 2’ wide, so I can reach everything, and I’m basically starting over so I have only a few cars and locos which I was goign to convert to Kadee (those that have soem clone) and many of those are still unbuilt kits. Hmmm… really got me thinking now. Also, I’m not at all into passenger trains and have not a single passenger car, so no diaphragm issues.
I thought the same thing. As it turns out, they are non-operating, and merely a detail part. The way the coupler operates, it would be very difficult to operate it from underneath. A TOP-operating coupler would theoretically be possible, though.
For most layouts, operating cut-levers would not be practical - our tight curves require that the couplers have much more lateral movement within the draught-gear box than does the prototype. This means that the connection to the locking mechanism would need to be extremely flexible (the prototype used a short length of chain - not practical in HO scale) or that the cut lever would need to slide from side-to-side as the cars negotiate curves. And if you think that the magnetic wand and a twist to open the knuckle is difficult, trying to hook a tool around the handle of cut lever, then pulling it when enough slack is developed, and holding it up while the cars are separated, all the while being careful to not lift the end of the car off the track should prove to be especially “interesting”. [:-^][swg]
Thanks to the OP on the review. I have considered using Sergents on my in-planning shelf layout for a couple of reasons. First, the realism - in these recessionary times I want to scale back plans and model a one-train, secondary line with only a few industries. Converting a pair of locos, a caboose and a handful of freight cars is achievable with Sergents. Second, converting will focus my efforts on this small fleet, rather than try to include too may cars on the roster and risk plugging up the layout. So, I’ll hand pick some of my better models for conversion and leave the rest stored for better times.
Sometimes simpler is better. With Sergents I’ll get more operating “bang-for-the-buck” by forcing slower ops which will serve to stretch out the layout. If I kept my Kadees, ops would remain fuss-free but the extra fussing, including using hand-written switch lists and orders, will lengthen the ops session and increase play value in my case. I’m looking forward to getting my hands on these couplers.
David, I liked your review of the Sergent couplers. They’re an interesting development, though, as you point out, they’re not for everyone.
One point, though: Kadee couplers were on the market long before the X2F (of which there were only one or possibly two manufacturers of the original design) or “horn-hook” couplers hit the market in the early 1960s. The original Kadee coupler were not magnetic, and depended on a raised diamond-shaped uncoupler to separate the knuckles. The most common model was the K-4, which fit most coupler pockets that were made for dummy couplers. They began production in the mid-1950s, somewhere around 1954. Unlike the modern MK4, they had no tiny spacer in the draft gear spring, so that starting a long train of them was like pulling on the end of a Slinky.
They began immediately replacing the prevalent operating coupler, the “Mantua” or hook-and-loop couplers, because they both operated (which dummy couplers didn’t), and looked like the real thing - sorta - (which the Mantua type didn’t),
The Magnetic Kadee (originally the MK4) we all now know and love wasn’t in production until the early 1960s. The K5 was developed in response to the manufacturers putting in a large center post in the coupler pocket to accomodate the horn-hook coupler. We’re all still living with that center post (even after the horn-hook coupler is to all intents and purposes gone with the wind) which is one reason we still have such oversized pockets for our couplers.
Sergent Engineering used to sell a small magnet that you set on top of a coupler to hold the ball (pin) up when pushing a cut of cars. The coupler with the magnet would open when the coupler was backed away from the cut of cars being pushed, leaving those cars in place. This is one way to handle “remote” uncoupling if you can’t reach the couplers with a magnetic wand.
While they don’t sell them anymore, you can get small magnets for this purpose from lots of places. McMaster-Carr has quite a large selection if your local hardware store doesn’t have small magnets.
Just thought I’d add this comparison photo that shows the difference between a kadee #5 (left), kadee #58 (less trip pin, middle), and a sergent coupler (right). Also in the picture is a comparison in wheelsets: (left to right) standard width Proto 2000 36" wheels, Branchline semi-scale 36" wheels, and Proto:87 scale wheels. The Proto:87 wheels are very nice but according to the proto:87 website, the wheels require almost perfect trackwork to run reliably. Notice the tiny wheel flange on the proto:87 wheel compared to the other two wheels.
David, I got my package this weekend, and found the assembly to go very quick on them. I like the way they work, better than the Kadees.
Here’s a quick video I shot showing them in action - note that the dark shadow is my arm giving the loco a push (it hasn’t been broken in yet, used it as it still had horn hooks on it).
