First off Micro Sol dose not do the job. These are very old decals that are not sealed down like they should. My old cars with bad decals are not around anymore so I can’t experiment like I would like to. I found one old decal on a scrap peice of wood and tried Tamiya extra thin and it seemed to work but can’t tell for sure as it is too small. Any ideas, can’t just replace the decals.
I use Walthers solvaset. Usually have good results.
I have had “troublesome” decals before, and out of desperation used liquid cement lightly spread over the decal. It worked, but I hesitate to tell you that’s the way to go. It’s kinda like a hail Mary pass in the last moments of a football game.
If you chose to use liquid cement, TEST FIRST!!
Once you use it, there’s no going back! If you use too much you could strip the paint off of your model. Go lightly !
(I used Tenex liquid cement, but Testors would be just as good.)
What kind of texture does the wood surface have (Board & Batten, Clap Board, Scribed)?
Is the wood surface sealed with future floor finish?
What problem are you having (Silver Edge, Air Bubbles Underneath, Long Unsettled Lines)?
How think is the decal film? Are these old thick decals like Jac-O-Lac, or is it just stiff?
-Kevin
The Tamiya extra strength is quite strong. If you use a bit too much it can attack the printed part of the decal. I’ve used it on stubborn decal film that refuses to sink nicely around rivet details for example.
Micro sol is very mild and that’s why it’s so easy to use.
Another tip: use a sharp pin or needle (sharper than pins) or the very tip of a #11 Xacto blade to puncture the unprinted parts of the decal, then the setting solvent can get behind the decal film as well as on the exposed surface.
Be extra careful not to put any sliding force whatsoever on the decal as you wet it out in this way. It will slide.
I’ve found that some water slide decal paper just won’t shrink down over details. The best overall liquid to make decals set properly for me is Walthers Solvaset. If it doesn’t work it’s new decal time.
I lucked out several years ago when I placed an order for decal paper they double shipped the order so I ended up with 100 sheets of very good quality decal paper. When I say I lucked out the company is no longer in business so I still have a good supply of decal paper, as Kevin would say “a life time supply”.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
It might be time to learn the skills of making your own decals. When I find a decal sheet in an old kit, I usually scan it just in case. Then I have a source that I can use to make my own decals.
I use a home inkjet printer. It works well enough for what I do. Sometime, I’d like to bring a couple of sheets of laser decal paper into an office place that does printing to see how that would work.
The decals are already on the car, put on by someone long ago. They did a great job on the build but the setting solutions were probly not around when it was built. It is scribed real wood and it is one of those, if I don’t do something, they will flake off at some point. Replacement is not an option as it is an Ambroid container car for NYC.
I think in your case I would try to seal it with Testors Dullcote. Cut a hole in a piece of paper the size of the decal then a light spray. I’ve done that on cars with windows and had very good luck.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Micro-Set is the one that is very mild. Micro-Sol is much stronger.
The way more and more products are becoming hard to get ahold of, lifetime supplies are the way to go!
-Kevin
This is a difficult situation to be sure, and one I have never dealt with.
IF… I had to try this… I would use Daco Strong (needs to be ordered from Europe, so that is another problem) on the decal, and let it sit for 24 hours without touching it. This will set the decal probably as much as possible without resorting to liquid model cement.
Then, if it is still not satisfactory, which is very likely, I would scribe the decal with a brand-new #11 blade and coat with Daco Strong again. This time after the solution had softened the decal, I would pick it with a sharp pin to help the decal solution get under the decal.
Let it dry for 24 hours again.
Then, if it is still not satisfactory, which is very likely, I would apply a thin layer of plastic model cement and let it sit for another 24 hours.
Then, if it is still not satisfactory, which is very likely, I would try to touch up whatever is left of the decal with model paint and a fine brush.
I would give all of this about a 10% chance of success. It is up to you if the risk is worth it.
-Kevin
It might be time to learn the skills of making your own decals. When I find a decal sheet in an old kit, I usually scan it just in case. Then I have a source that I can use to make my own decals.
I use a home inkjet printer. It works well enough for what I do. Sometime, I’d like to bring a couple of sheets of laser decal paper into an office place that does printing to see how that would work.
Similar to Kevin’s suggestion, I would use a new blade to slice the decal along the scribed lines of the car’s wood siding - keep the blade as close to parallel with the car’s side as is possible as you work, to lessen the chance of tearing or lifting-off parts of the decal.
When you’ve done one side of the car, apply a strong decal-setting solution, such as Solvaset or the Daco Strong which Kevin mentions, and let it sit until it’s dry. You may need to make further applications to get everything settled into place before turning the car over to do the other side.
If the decals have already been oversprayed with a clear finish, you may not get satisfactory results.
The most difficult decals with which I’ve worked were MicroMark’s rivet decals, where even Solvaset had little effect. I finally turned to using MEK, and found that a very light and quick pass with a small brushload of MEK worked well in most instances. However, a second pass to deal with areas that didn’t settle resulted in removal or relocation of most of the rivets.
It may work to settle your decals if they’ve been oversprayed with a clear finish, but I can’t say for certain that it will work - make a small test on an inconspicuous area, if possible.
Wayne
My experience with those wonderful rivet decals has been similar.
I used plastic model cement, which I think is mostly MEK.
-Kevin
Micro set (blue bottle) is not intended to soften decals. It is to help float the decal to where you want it.
Micro sol (red bottle) is the decal softening fluid. It is very weak compared to Tamiya strong version (this has different names in different markets) in Canada it is called “Mark Fit” and has a yellow label. Use the Tamiya product sparingly unless the decals are heavy.
[*-)]
-Kevin
Ok, the glue works fine as long as you do it carefully in multiple coats, if you don’t allow enough dry time you can lose a letter. Experimented on one of the containers, damage will never be noticed and no effect on paint.
Micro set doesn’t soften decals, in real life. Or at least not the ones I’ve been using. Micro sol does but only a little, just enough in most cases.
The blue stuff is primarily just a wetting agent. It allows the wet decal to suck down onto the surface. It slightly softens the decal membrane but that is just a side effect of the wetting out function. Using micro set to soften a decal will not work, at all.
The red stuff is primarily a decal carrier membrane softener which partially dissolves the carrier membrane, reducing or eliminating the characteristic shine while also softening the membrane so it will conform more readily to surface irregularities like those moulded in rivets or door frames. Micro sol is very mild and easy to use.
The Tamiya product is not mild at all. Mark Fit will soften the membrane so much as to wrinkle a decal if used carelessly.
Think hair dryer compared to a heat gun.
Well, I am extremely experienced in decal application, and would go so far as to declare myself an expert. I have custom painted and decalled hundreds of freight cars including the entire current 150 plus unit Fleet of Nonsense.
And… I have shared pictures of ALL of them.
I have built dozens of military models, hundreds of wargaming models, and countless fingernails on the daughters. All of this has been done with decals.
I have applied decals by Microscale, Rail Graphics, Don Manlick, Cartograf, K4, Oddball, Herald King, Citadel, Tamiya, and so on.
I know how all the decal setting solutions work and I learned it all through experience and experimentation. I get successful results with my techniques.
I am going to ask you again to stop posting replies where you have no idea what you are talking about. It is tiresome, so please quit it. You are still continuing to spread incorrect information.
Decalling model railroad items is relatively easy in the world of model building, and you have not even figured out how to get Micro-Set to work as intended.
This was difficult… You are looking at hundreds of tiny decals custom cut and applied.
This unit won Best Painted Fantasy Regiment at Necronomicon 2012 and Historicon 2013, and there are over 800 individual tiny decals used to decorate it, but what would I know about applying decals?
This one won the other award at Necronomicon, but only 10 decals, it was all brush painted. I am an expert at that too.
-Kevin
Arguments about decal set are likely moot for this question, which is about aged decal film applied without setting. To me there are two issues:
(1) the decal film is old and brittle, possibly under coatings that are also old and brittle but that has not been established;
(2) the adhesive under the decal film is improperly adhered or aged and is no longer sticking the aged and brittle film properly.
So the solution as it seems to me is to restore what flexibility is possible (or a reinforcing layer over the film that will adhere to it and keep the pieces in place if it flakes) and THEN get new adhesive distributed under the old film to adhere the whole shebang tightly and without silvering or voids – this probably requiring the flexibility of step (1) or else enough ‘build’ to fill the loose areas by capillary action with something that dries hard and clear.
Solutions that optimize these are likely the ‘best’ solution (like the first law of consulting, there’s no guarantee the ‘best’ solution will be a ‘good’ solution). But I would NOT go incising an old fragile film before getting (1) reasonably accomplished, or topcoating the film so it won’t disintegrate.
Then why doesn’t someone ask a question about how to deal with old decals instead of declaring a commonly used high quality product does not work as intended?
People that need information should ask questions instead of displaying their inexperience as good technique.
There are plenty of us here that can get good results and are willing to help with accurate information.
I decorated this VIRGINIAN AND OHIO boxcar with a set of decals that was brittel, stiff, and almost 50 years old.
But again, what would I know about any of this?
-Kevin