My Oakhurst Railroad is set in California in the 1920’s. It is a mountain railroad and operates “shorty” passenger equipment.
However, I want to model a scene where a regular Southern Pacific passenger train arrives in town and then the passengers unload from a Southern Pacific passenger train and load into several trains of shorty pasenger cars for an excusrsion into the mountains.
I have been looking at these passenger cars but have not bought them yet. They are 60’ and heavyweight. I also need to know what kind of locomotive would be pulling these cars around the central valley of California in the 1920’s. (Just to clarify, I am not asking about shorty passenger equipment or mountain locomotives.)
So, I’m looking for your suggestions for locomotive and passenger car types. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
I am not sure about California specifically, but a short-line mountain railroad would probably give the task to any locomotive, depending on the size of the train. You are right to be looking at the 60 foot (commonly called Harriman) passenger cars, as they were built for the Union Pacific and the Southern Pacific from 1909-1927 and would have lasted well after that in commuter service and on short-lines. I would say that a short two-car train of a combine and a coach could probably head up the mountain behind a modernized 4-4-0 or 4-6-0 as an off peak local. Any of the longer trains could rate a light pacific. You can even run a milk train early in the morning with two or three Pfaudler milk cars and a combing at the rear behind a 4-6-0 or light pacific. Depending on the grades, you can even assign regular frieght locomotives to your passenger trains. Like moguls and light mikados. I know that the Canadian Pacific Railway assigned large Selkirk type (2-10-4) locomotives to many of it’s large passenger trains running through Rogers Pass.
Assuming that this is a short-line railroad, you probably won’t have trains longer than 5 cars. But ultimately it depends on what the railroad ‘does for a living.’ If it is a fairly important railroad linking two midsize cities or towns then you could probably have most (2-4) of the passenger trains running behind a light pacific, with a ten-wheeler bringing up any of the of peak commuter runs. If the line were more of a mining railroad there would probably be little excursion service and run maybe a twice-daily local to and from the mining town and the interchange and possibly a milk run up and down the mountain. Ultimately it depends on what you want your layout to represent. With a little more information
I guess I’m being pretty specific. My scenario would be a railfan trip in the 1920’s from Oakland to Fresno and then up a branch line to Oakhurst using regular SP passenger equipment. Then everyone would transfer to shorty passenger cars for a ride on a logging railroad into the mountains.
Now, as far as modeling, I have the logging railroad essentially built and passenger service with the shorty equipment and geared locomotives.
I am just looking to get some SP passener cars and a locomotive to essentially stage the scene in the Oakhurst yard where the passenger transfer will occur. The SP locomotive would only be able to run about 5-6 feet into the yard on my “interchange track” with the SP.
Here is a picture of a special excursion train (Oakhurst Railroad shorty passenger cars & geared locomotives) on the interchange track. I would move it over a track and put the SP pasenger train on this track.
Thanks for any additional locomotive guidance you might be able to provide. What would the SP be using at this time for this kind of trip? and who makes such an HO scale locomotive now?
Your best bet for the SP train would be some Roundhouse 60’ Harriman cars. For an engine a Pacific would work, ideally with a Vanderbilt tender. If you’re era is pre-1946 the engine and cars should be lettered :Southern Pacific Lnes"f, for post 1946 Southern Pacific" (w/ the Southern Pacific on the tender 21" as opposed to the pre-1946 Southern Pacific Lines in 16")
That is just the information I was looking for. Thanks!
I see IHC makes a pre-war Pacific lettered for Southern Pacific Lines. However, it doesn’t have a Vanderbuilt tender (it is regular straight flat sides). Know of any manufacturer in HO with the correct tender? Would it be easy to swap tenders?
I know that there are many manufactureers who make Vanderbilt tenders, some of which are Bachmann, and Bowser. Swapping them would be very simple and could even be as simple as swapping cars in a regular train. You may need to move the coupling pins (the drawbar and pin that connect most tenders to the locomotive) so that it will infact couple, but this would be a very simple task. One thing about the tenders. I don’t know if they come pre-lettered for SP Lines so you may have to do that youself with decals. Overall, go with the IHC model. Great starter loco’s that are extremley affordable. That way you can spend around 40-50 bucks on the tender[:)]
Yhe Bachman shorty anderbilt tender would probabl be your best bet. The Bowser is a 16000 gal semi-cylindrical tender that was mostly used behind Mouintains and early cab forwards. You’l probably have to paint and decal the tender and I don’t know of a source for the SP Lines lettering (Micro-scale only has the post-1946) Thin Film might offer them but I don’t know who carries them.
Many Southern Pacific 4-6-2s used rectangular tenders, so a Vanderbilt is unnecessary unless you like the look or are modeling a particular locomotive at a particular time having such a tender. Just make sure it is set up for fue oill.
Thanks for all of the great advice. I’m watching for bargains on E-bay. Sometime in the future when I finally put the scene together I’ll be sure to post some photos …
It did end up taking a while, but I did finally find and purchase several Southern Pacific Lines passenger cars and stage the railfan excursion scene I was wanting to do. Photos are shown below. Still looking for a good Southern Pacific Lines locomotive. For this scene, I’m assuming I had to send a Shay down the SP mainline to bring the SP passenger train the last few miles.
Also, don’t overlook either a 2-6-0 or 4-6-0 for your SP connection loco–they were very active on Sierra foothill branchlines, especially in the period you’re modeling. IHC makes a little SP-style 2-6-0 that is very close to a “Valley Mallet”, except with a rectangular oil tender, and if you can find one, Roundhouse made a Harriman style 4-6-0 with a Vandy tender that with some super-detailing could be just spot on.
4-8-2’s were dual service,So it could be used for passenger or freight.But I am not a detail nut so maybe that would need a certain paint scheme or numbers .
BTW Wonderful pictures Please get some more for us!
The SP MT Mountains were a pretty hefty mainline loco, and if you’re running an SP ‘Branch line’ to your Oakhurst logging railroad, it might just be prototypically a little too much loco for the rails and possibly the curveature.
SP had a lot of branchlines in California, especially during the 'thirties, but they usually limited their locos on those lines to 2-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-8-0 and occasionally 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 locos. A 4-6-2 certainly wouldn’t be out of place, but a 4-8-2 might just be a little more than the rail or the radius of a branchline could handle.
Now, understand, I’m talking ‘prototype’ here, not necessarily what might look good on your particular model railroad. It would pretty much depend on your radius and trackwork–and from the photo, your track looks pretty darned sturdy. If you’re ‘imagineered’ your SP branch to work with heavier power, then I’d say go ahead and try the 4-8-2. If you’re more concerned with what ‘prototypically’ would have hauled the connecting passenger train to your logging branch, then you might feel more comfortable with smaller power.
I know you’ve said that the SP branch is merely a short section of connecting track to Oakhurst, and the majority of the SP branch is “off-stage.” So I’d go with what you feel comfortable with.
Myself, I wouldn’t go with anything larger than a 4-6-2, but that’s just me.
The jacks of all trade, Harriman 2-8-0’s & 4-6-0’s were common power for secondary passenger duties. SP power had a very distinctive look during this period, graphite smokeboxes, short MCcormic pilots and the unique “Sacramento Headlight” were hallmarks. This was also the waning years for the application of special paint, were even a lowly consolidation assigned to passenger use could display numerous boiler jacket colors repleat with polished nickle silver trim.
It is esential you capture these qualtites to convey a 1920’s time frame. As mentioned, roundhouse once upon a time had such a 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 available, if you discount the oversized drivers and lack of detail they build into fantastic examples. Until the arrival of sufficient MT class locomotives, Pacifics were prime passenger power and thus would be an unusual choice for secondary service, though, never say never!
If there is one area of confusion in regards to the SP it would be tender assignment, you could go with several classes and not be accused of being unprotoypical as tender swapping became an art to the mechanical/shop forces, so frequently was it done. It helps if you can focus on a particular locomotive to see these changes over a extended period for yourself.
Perhaps a moot point, don’t discount the use of wooden coaches, SP rostered a large fleet in the 70-85 foot range that had several years of use remaining before being shunted to scrap or maintaince of way duties in the thrities…
I got it on e-bay … an IHC 2-6-0 and a Bachmann Vanderbilt Tender. I detached the square coal tender and cut the wires and the locomotive runs OK without the tender. So the Bachmann tender is just mechanically attached.
And as a bonus, I visited a real Southern Pacific 2-6-0 at the Lomita Railroad Museum …
Good choice. Ten-wheelers (TW) and Moguls (M) make ideal SP branchline dual-purpose locomotives. They usually had 63" drivers rather than Consolidations and such locomotives with 57" or less, so those 3-axle locos weren’t as sluggish. If memory serves, TW and M locos handled Coos Bay branch passenger trains up to the 1950s.
Pacifics were commonly used on Monterey branch passenger trains, but then most of the run was on the Coast mainline between San Francisco and Castroville (110 miles) compared to Castroville to Pacific Grove (18 miles). Pacifics were also used on the Los Gatos branch, but then again most of the length of the runs was on the mainline.
The quality of the track and the capacity of bridges were ruling factors. The SP hadn’t upgraded most of its branchlines by mid-twentieth century, so frequently relied on seemingly obsolete locomotives with light axle loadings.
Pacifics were commonly used on Monterey branch passenger trains, but then most of the run was on the Coast mainline between San Francisco and Castroville (110 miles) compared to Castroville to Pacific Grove (18 miles). Pacifics were also used on the Los Gatos branch, but then again most of the length of the runs was on the mainline.
Actually, light rail and bridges weren’t the gating factor on the Monterey Branch. It was the 70’ turntable in Pacific Grove. SP expert and former partner in The Train Shop in Santa Clara Charlie Givens says he rode a GS-4 powered troop train out of Fort Ord in the mid 50’s. The train was turned on the balloon track at Gigling. It’s still there (the balloon track, not the GS-4 powered troop train).
Except for head-end cars I’m not quite sure that 60’ heavyweight coaches would be appropriate for Sufferin’ Pathetic passenger trains running down the central valley in the 1920s. As far as locomotives go you could use a Pacific but most likely a local would be pulled by either something akin to an A-3 Atlantic or a T-28 Ten-Wheeler.
These particular locomotives would have been equipped with Harriman-standard boilers both of which are/were available in the old Roundhouse line.
