I’m finally ready to start scenery, but I’m unsure of which method to use.
Stacked styrofoam can be expensive if I have to buy it and finding it at a construction is kinda iffy. Plus, I’ve read that it can be slow to work with due to the carving. But, planting trees is easy and secure.
Cardboard lattice covered with paper towels or red rosin paper or plaster gauze is cheaper, supposedly faster but can be messier. The old paper towel dipped in hydrocal is certainly messy, plaster gauze less so and red rosin paper painted with white glue possibly the neatest. In the November, 2011 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, someone described ‘painting’ paper towels with the hydrocal mixture thus avoiding the dipping and dripping.
What do you think about laying red rosin paper over cardboard lattice (cheap), spraying it with water and then painting it with hydrocal? I think the water in the red rosin paper would help bond the plaster to the paper.
One question about the cardboard lattice is how to attach it along the wall, finished drywall. I guess some kind of silhouette board is necessary along the wall and I’d glue the cardboard lattice to the silhouette. I don’t want to attach the lattice directly to the wall. The silhouette board can just be cardboard, right?
My concern with any of the paper over cardboard lattice methods is securing trees, there doesn’t seem to be much depth to hold the trunks. Those of you who use this method, how do you secure your trees?
Hi Jeff, Personally, I prefer to use metal window screening for building mountains, rivers, etc. I staple it onto the plywood background or flat. I use Hydrocal plaster for rivers and much handled areas of scenery. It is extremely hard and does not crack, like Plaster or Paris, or Sculptmold will. I drill holes in the plaster for inserting trees, before spraying on the color. After cleaning up the loose plaster, one can then glue tree trunks into the painted holes. By spray painting after the holes are drilled, the area does not have messy white plaster. If you desire a conifer forest on a narrow ridge top, one can cut tree shapes from cardboard or packaging sponge foam. Then, spray paint it with various green shades, and ,glue layers, to form a realistic canopy that in only an inch deep. (As shown in the photo). Bob Hahn For making deciduous trees, I like to use Scenic Express Super Trees, especially for foreground trees. A $25 box of Super trees will make about 60 trees and a bunch of shrubs. I tip the box over and pull the exposed trunks, one at a time,(with little breakage) I soak three trunks at a time, then spay on spray adhesive. I use my fingers to then sprinkle on WS Blended Foam. Another way to turn out hundreds of trees is to stain olive skewers, then cut ot circles from furnace filters. I push 5-6 circles onto the stained skewer trunks, and then spray with adhesive and sprinkle on foliage foam of various colors. The foliage color can be for Summer varies green, or Fall colors. (as seen in the second photo) One can purchase yards of background photo scenery. I apply the sequence with wallpaper paste. Note that the HO scale train i
Gidday, I have used a variety of methods, all can be messy but then that’s half the fun isn’t it ?
A cheap source of styrofoam/ polystyrene, if one is handy to yourself, can be either discarded packaging from a home appliance store, or off cuts from a refrigeration company. Glue it together with caulk, carve with a "box cutter " or similar sharp instrument, then finish of with a thick mixture or plaster of paris, carve again if requiered. I have never used “Hydrocal” as it is a US brand name, but my understanding is that it is similar to plaster of paris,
I have used cardboard lattice to good effect, but on larger areas I am a fan of “chicken wire mesh”, more expensive of course but is more self supporting and can be pushed or pulled into what ever, within reason, shape you require.
I have also used paper kitchen towels dipped into a soupy mix of plaster of paris, then draped over the lattice work, but much prefer using cut up cotton sheets. ( A word of caution!! DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE USE your wife/partners best sheets, unless of course you,re a far braver man than myself). I’ve managed to accrue a good supply of worn linen over the years, a commerical laundry that deals with hotels or hospitals often sells bags of cotton rags at a very reasonable price, can be cheaper than paper towels, plus I like them as the cotton rags are sturdier and don’t fall to bits if they get well soaked.
If your’e going to use the above method then only mix up small batches of plaster at a time.
Regarding attaching your cardboard lattice to the wall I would suggest that you would have to make a framework out of recycled timber to attach it to.Don’t know if you have them in the States but pallet lots of plywood, particle board, MDF and the like have protective packing sheets that are 2nds. If you get to know the right person at the local timber merchants, those sheets can be a cheap backi
I’ll give you a somewhat different perspective: nowhere is it written in stone that you have to use the same method on your entire layout.
Mine is a mixture of plaster cloth over cardboard lattice (I use hot glue to hold it together), plaster cloth over balled up newspaper (I put flat sheets of newspaper soaked with wet water over the newspaper balls, both to soften the appearance of the terrain and to avoid sucking the water out of the plaster before it cures), and Sculptamold over extruded foam insulation. Where I used plaster cloth, I covered it with a thin layer of hydrocal. The whole thing is painted with Glidden Nutmeg Brown interior latex, which I got for $5.99 a quart at Home Depot.
I have to say that, of the three methods, I prefer Sculptamold and foam for dramatic elevation changes – hills, mountains, and so forth) and balled newspaper to make gradual rolling terrain.
I would recommend that you experiment and find which one you prefer. Try to ignore the issues of cost (you don’t have to buy it all at the same time – I generally have only one 2x8 sheet of insulation on hand at a time, and cut pieces out as needed) and time (including cleaning up the mess – it’s not a race, after all). See which one gives you the best results in terms of terrain that is pleasing to you and meets your standards of realism, and use that. Just be aware – this may change as your skills improve.
I don’t know where you’re from or how available the material is, but I bought a 2" thick, 4’ x 8’ sheet of foam for $25 at one of the local building supply stores and still have half of it left. When carving and shaping, I mainly use an old steak knife and a small wire brush, I find it easier and faster to work with and although you’ll need to run a shop vac when done, I get better results.
Cardboard lattice might be cheaper, but I found it to be more time consuming and a pain. Also, when I got done laying the plaster cloth over the cardboard, my mountains looked like they suffered from malnutrition (ribs sticking out). Maybe I just couldn’t grasp this technique, but found using styrofoam much more pleasant.
Honestly, I think styrofoam is cheaper than plaster cloth. As quoted previously, a 4’ x 8’ sheet (32 s
I use different methods for different needs, but the large hills are crumpled paper, which I put in plastic grocery bags to keep dry, covered with plaster cloth.
Cardboard lattice, using hot glue for joining the strips and the strips to the form. I think you can get a better overall formation with the lattice. Over that, I am using red rosin paper. I crumple it up first then spread it out and hot glue it in spots, working from the bottom up. Next, I am laying dry plaster cloth on it, one strip at a time, then spraying each with water before I put the next strip on. This takes a lot of the mess out of the dipping method and works really well. If no rocks will be on the form, I use three layers of plaster cloth. This will hold trees OK. I use hot glue on the bottom of the stems and then put them in the hole I punch. If I have to move a tree, I fill the hole with ground foam. I cast my rocks in place so they conform to the shape of the hill or mountain.
The backboard against the wall can be cardboard, but if the shape against the wall is going to be a big one, I would use Luan.
I don’t think painting on hydrocal would work too well. I think it would peel off too easily if cracked. The plaster should be able to soak into the base material to form a strong bond, and that won’t happen with the red rosin paper.
I have tried the plaster cloth, the stacked extruded styrofoam, and lately I have settled on aluminium window screen hot glued to the anchoring places with grocery bags stuffed with crumpled newspaper below the screening to lend it support. Over the screen I slather a mixture of what is commonly called ‘ground goop’ even though there are several recipes out there. The one I use is the one favoured by Joe Fugate: two parts plaster of Paris with one part Portland cement with four parts of finely ground vermiculite. Make a somewhat soupy mixture with water and ladle it over the screen, taking care to tamp it gently to get it to smooth out on the surface or it will be knobby.
It is easily drilled to take utility poles and tree armatures. It must be pre-wet to add layers or more of the compound to the side when continuing to add scenery over uncovered screen so that it doesn’t absorb too much of the liquid needed by the new addition for proper curing. This also applies to adding ground foam for greenery. You must pre-wet prior to spraying the fixative for the sprinkled ground foam products.
Here is as good as I had the patience to make it look six years ago in my rush to get to a usable layout: (the boulder in the foreground is the real deal…picked it up at the end of my driveway)
Tried to send an answer last night, but connection failed. Lots of trouble with that lately. Company is “working” on it. but so far, poor results.
Since many of the things I was saying got covered, I’ll just offer this additional suggestion. Look up “glueshell” in Search our Community. Instead of using plaster cloth or plaster soaked paper towels, it uses 50:50 white glue and water for the mix. Can be used over lattice, crumpled paper, screen, etc. The biggest advantage I see is that it is much easier to clean up than a plaster solution.
I do go along with the several suggestions. Use different methods (foam/lattice/cieling tiles/whatever) on the different types of terrain on your layout.
What I tried recently was a combination of methods I learned about from different videos and magazines.
Basically I started by crumpling up newspaper wads, and holding them in place with masking tape to get the general shape I wanted. Then I took paper towels cut into roughly hand-size pieces, and applied straight white glue to both sides. I used a cheap little aluminum baking pan from the grocery store, and applied the glue with an old 1" brush. Then applied the paper towels to the scenery like you would if you were dipping the paper in plaster - only unlike plaster, it’s much cleaner. I went back after that dried and brushed on some straight white glue for a little more strength.
The next day, I mixed up some sanded grout (dark brown) and applied that over the paper towels. You can use a brush or some type of spatula, it’s about the same consistency as plaster. The grout not only adds strength, but texture, so it looks like real dirt. Then it’s easy to apply grass over that. I added some rock castings, and used lighter brown grout as the bank of a river.
The river water was just black paint on a flat surface, over which I blended some dark and light blue, and white, then brushed to mix together, then when dry added a layer of gloss medium.
Here’s a low-quality video of it. The sand looks a lot whiter here than it does in person.
I’m the guy that likes stacked styrofoam. I have found lots at construction sites. Maybe I,'m just lucky. I think carving is faster than any other method and less mess, and I think way more fun. It depends on what you want. I have seen a lot of butcher paper laetly and if you want a painted green surface it seems fast.
Good luck. I still think making the scenery is the most fun, so I am warped a little in my opinion.
I’m trying something “new” (at least for me). Joel Bragdon’s Geodesic Foam system. I like it a lot so far. VERY large molds can be cast out of resin and foam backing and placed up on a mountain range by one person. Seams are blended easily and almost invisibly. I am using an “alternate” method in that I don’t use his enamel spray paint “coating” and paint over the castings afterwards with acrylics.
His website has complete instructions and pictures of castings. I am enjoying the complete lack of any plaster splatter/cust cleanup and disposal of dried plaster. I don’t even have to tape over my track it’s that neat!
Castings are simply got glued to a standard cardboard lattice and plaster cloth or one can use Joel’s own polyurethane foam sheets and hardshell system.
It’s more expensive than plaster(ing) but the rock detail/edges remain much more crisp and defined than with plaster. He also recommends artist’s gesso instead of latex paint for a base coating for better light reflectivity and “translucence”.
Anyway, just finished casting and now am painting the lst base coat. So far, I am completely sold with this method over older traditional methods. Time will tell.
If your layout is moveable (portable) these scenery methods will provide much more durable (bounce back-able) rock work and at least as light as other scenting methods.
If you haven’t decided yet and have a chance to see one of Joel’s seminars/clinics lst, I highly recommend it.
Oh yes, absolutely NO scent or odors involved which is of the utmost importance for me and my wife. (If one forgoes the enamel spray paint step).
Just another method to “throw out there” in case the OP hadn’t come across it.
Actually, it does, but “painting” is a rather general term. Anywhere I’ve used plaster cloth, I’ve always mixed up a batch of hydrocal and spread it about an eighth of an inch thick over the plaster cloth. The trick is to spray the plaster cloth with wet water first, so that the hydrocal doesn’t get all crumbly from being too dry. Sure, it will chip, but only where there is a direct impact.
I like to use a cardboard web for a base, and cover it with some kind of mesh material (cheesecloth, tulle [bridal veil] and/or fiberglass drywall tape). I apply two or three brush coats of plaster to form a shell.
I finish the plaster by applying a smoothing coat by hand. Areas like right of way embankments are built up with natural sand and rocks after the plaster is complete, so the plaster doesn’t necessarily reflect the final contours. This is the same scene as above.
CTVALLEYRR - different methods for different areas? I had thought of that myself, but it’s good to get confirmation. Your suggestion of styrofoam for dramatic hills and newspapers for rolling terrain makes sense. I can ‘see’ the difference. And I appreciate the color suggestion - Glidden nutmeg brown, I’ll check that out. I guess you haven’t experience the cracking of sculptamold that HHPATH56 has?
Many thanks to everyone who offered their ideas and suggestions.
I must say I’m surprised by the number of people using screen wire. Reading the magazines, I thought screen wire had long passed out of favor. Apparently not. And the same is true for balled-up newspapers. I think it’s great to get this perspective - thanks again.
HHPATH56 - you like hydrocal because you say it doesn’t crack like sculptamold. I guess you’ve had that experience? A friend of mine really wants to use sculptamold, but I don’t think he’s heard of the cracking problem. Did it crack from drying out or from impact? I like the luan plywood suggestion, I hadn’t thought of that.
CTVALLEYRR - different methods for different areas? I had thought of that myself, but it’s good to get confirmation. Your suggestion of styrofoam for dramatic hills and newspapers for rolling terrain makes sense. I can ‘see’ the difference. And I appreciate the color suggestion - Glidden nutmeg brown, I’ll check that out. I guess you haven’t experience the cracking of sculptamold that HHPATH56 has?
PENNCENTRAL99 – my concern over the cost of styrofoam comes from the size of my RR – it occupies most of a 17.5’ x 22’ room, two levels - around the walls and a large center peninsula. The ‘layer cake’ method of using Styrofoam just seems to require an awful lot of styrofoam. You contrast the cost of the styrofoam to the cost of plaster cloth. If you don’t cover your styrofoam with plaster cloth, what do you use?
DAVE – while I’ve heard of balled-up newspapers being used, I’ve never heard of stuffing them in plastic bags. Why do you do that? What do you think is the advantage? Why is it important to keep the newspapers dry? And doesn’t the plaster cloth slide around on the plastic bags? I wouldn’t think there would be anything for the plaster to ‘grip’.
It’s basically just a take on the old screen wire idea, but uses material that’s easier for me to work with, form and attach compared to screen. One of our local modelers, Kelly Newton, popularized cheesecloth maybe 15 years ago or more, and we’ve tried various tweaks ever since. Another guy in my round-robin group, Steve Blodgett, hit on the fiberglass drywall tape within the last year or two, and found it worked great in small spaces. My wife went looking for cheesecloth on a bolt at the fabric store only two months ago, and the store clerk suggested tulle might work even better and was about half the cost. So far I like using it better than cheesecloth.
