This former T1 and K4 raceway was double-tracked with heavy iron in PRR days, and some PRR passerger trains went up to 120mph over it.
Is it still double-tracked? If not, which prior owner removed the second main?What is the current speed limit? Is it CTC or train-order? Any classic PRR signals still working?
At least west of Fort Wayne, the line is single-tracked. I believe that this was done under Conrail management. The line is currently owned by NS and leased to Chicago, Fort Wayne & Eastern.
Was this the former Amtk route of 29&30 prior to rerouting? Remember being out there in '86 and not much of an impression then
In 1987, I was returning from Washington on #29, and I noticed that the signals on one side of the track were out of service. I did not look to see if there was only one track. I do not remember just what month it was.
I know that NS at one time purchased the old PRR west of Fort Wayne, but I thought they were required to trade it (ownership of the line) to CSX as part of the shuffling when the two split up Conrail. I believe it is CSX who leases the line to C,F,&E. With NS having a right to move a limited amount of trains over it.
NS was making good use of that right a few years ago, regularly running relief off of the congested water level route…utilizing the former NKP from Chicago to Fort Wayne, and then the PRR route east to Crestline. NS was crewing the later move with crews out of (correction) Mansfield. I believe all most all of this traffic at the time was eastbound, so the crews must have been coming by taxi to pick up the trains. I don’t see much of that traffic anymore, and they have since removed the temporary fueling depot they had set up near “Mike” junction. So it’s likely history.
Elsewhere in this forum you’ll see a thread about Canadian Pacific routing container traffic on this line east out of Chicago to Lima Ohio, and then into southern Ohio via a different line.
NS uses a short segment of this line between “Junction” junction and the former NKP main in western Fort Wayne as part of their busy Atlanta-Chicago artery.
I live in Valparaiso and the line is indeed single tracked with I believe 40 mph non signaled operations. There are a few old PRR signals left - Hanna, Indiana has a couple which protect the crossing of the CKIN (old C&O line) which is a short line operation.
Not sure if the NS runs much on the CFE these days…in the past they would run a couple of trains daily. The CFE usually runs one train daily into or out of Chicago plus a local as far west as Valpo.
There is a new customer in Wanatah which receives inbound loads which are transloaded to truck for delivery to refineries (some sort of product shipped out of Houston area). Word is there are regular frac sand trains runnign also tho I havent seen or heard one.
The line seems to be slowing growing (from what I have heard).
Ed
Since it’s virtually unused, this could be bought by the government and become part of a passenger-only higher speed or full high speed line from Chicago east.
It could. Or the old Erie ROW, too. But the problem is the route misses all the bigger population centers.
NS was running “directional” petroleum trains on the route a few years ago. I don’t know if that practice has totally stopped or not.
Perhaps spurs could connect to cities it misses. Didn’t the old PRR have a line into Columbus?
I seem to recall that the French HSR often missed major cities. In Germany most routes use older, slower repackage into cities, which increases time. But in the case of Kassel, the fast line station (Kassel-Wilhelmshoehe) was located well outside the city.
The line has been used in sort of a nutshell game by people making dubious claims trying to build grass roots support for a HSR line between Chicago and various points east.
Generally they present their idea, saying “we’d like to do this” (which is the former PRR line we are talking about)…then they continue by saying “of course there are options” and then they show another map which depicts the line just mentioned PLUS an alternate route that just happens to connect Cleveland,Toledo, South Bend, and Chicago…
The presentation wreaks just a little too much of an effort to stimulate taxpayer support in as broad an area as possible while making no tangible commitment that the line will serve any one area.
When they come around and say they are willing to commit $10 billion of their own money, and will build the line where ever they can get a taxpayer commitment to match them…then I’ll start paying attention.
The guys just seem a little too much like hucksters trying to attach a siphon hose to a “public private partnership” where they draw all the pretty pictures and control the farebox, while the taxpayer gets to do all the heavy lifting.
You need a desirable endpoint on each end of thre line to make it really work, and while I am sure Chicago qualifies, I have serious doubts that either Columbus or Pittsburgh is going to excite many private deep pockets.
So my suspicion would be that the South Bend-Toledo-Cleveland option is the one they really want to build
[quote user=“Convicted One”]
charlie hebdo
Since it’s virtually unused, this could be bought by the government and become part of a passenger-only higher speed or full high speed line from Chicago east.
The line has been used in sort of a nutshell game by people making dubious claims trying to build grass roots support for a HSR line between Chicago and various points east.
Generally they present their idea, saying “we’d like to do this” (which is the former PRR line we are talking about)…then they continue by saying “of course there are options” and then they show another map which depicts the line just mentioned PLUS an alternate route that just happens to connect Cleveland,Toledo, South Bend, and Chicago…
The presentation wreaks just a little too much of an effort to stimulate taxpayer support in as broad an area as possible while making no tangible commitment that the line will serve any one area.
When they come around and say they are willing to commit $10 billion of their own money, and will build the line where ever they can get a taxpayer commitment to match them…then I’ll start paying attention.
The guys just seem a little too much like hucksters trying to attach a siphon hose to a “public private partnership” where they draw all the pretty pictures and control the farebox, while the taxpayer gets to do all the heavy lifting.
You need a desirable endpoint on each end of thre line to make it really work, and while I am sure Chicago qualifies, I have serious doubts that either Columbus or Pittsburgh is going to excite many private deep pockets.
So my suspicion would be that the South Bend-Toledo-Cleveland option is the one they really want to bui
The PRR had a line from Pittsburgh to St. Louia that went through Columbus and Indianapolis.
In October of 1971, I rode over it from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis and from Terre Haute to St. Louis–Conrail had already switched the traffic from Indianapolis to Terre Haute to the former NYC; the PRR line here no longer exists west of Davis (just west of Indianapolis).
I suspect that Toledo gets extra weight due to it’s proximity to Detroit, and (big “and” there) Cleveland/Buffalo could be a good connection point to a complimentary line to the big cities on the east coast.
I have a pretty good lead that one of those mammoth tunnel boring machines is going to be available for sale used in a couple years. A pet fantasy of mine would be to buy that, and tunnel through Pennsylvania to link Pittburgh to Philly with a low slope tangent, and then lease the tunnel to a HSR operator…Making Chicago to Pittburgh more attractive.
Unfortunately in addition to all the obvious reasons why I’ll never do that, I just wouldn’t live long enough to see it ever bear fruit.
If you were looking to do a good “connect the dots” with available ROW, you could use the old PRR panhandle from Pittsburgh through Columbus to Indy. From Indy to Chicago…not sure what you could grab. I think there is a group thinking about this stuff and pushing out plans. It might be worth hunting for. Maybe a few years back…
take a look at this: https://midwesthsr.docsend.com/view/xd7iymx
Now that the former Big Four route has been abandoned in part, the former Monon route is about all that’s left between Indianapolis and Chicago and that’s not even close to being the basis of a high-speed route.
Looks like its yes
Yes, there is now only one route left between Indianapolis and Chicago–but it is composed of bits and pieces of several roads,icluding the former NYC, PRR, Monon (this is the longest stretch), GTW, C&EI, C&WI, and PRR (I think I got them all; the entrance into CHicago is quite involved–and slow.) This what SPV shows in its Great Lakes atlases.
Yes, there is now only one route left between Indianapolis and Chicago–but it is composed of bits and pieces of several roads,icluding the former NYC, PRR, Monon (this is the longest stretch), GTW, C&EI, C&WI, and PRR (I think I got them all; the entrance into CHicago is quite involved–and slow.) This what SPV shows in its Great Lakes atlases.
As someone who’s been very interested in the former PRR Chicago - New York mainline (particularly the segment from Crestline, OH westward), I thought it was an utter travesty how CR was able to get away with downgrading the mainline west of Crestline that resulted in the elimination of the Broadway Limited. Call me nostalgic but for me, the only way from Chicago to New York is the PRR.