When were automatic stokers first applied to coal burning steam locomotives? And in a related topic, what is the largest locomotive that can realistically be fired by hand by one person?
In 1921 the Erie bought three Mallets that had Standard DuPont Type B stokers.I read a good article about stokers in an old issue of Railraoad Magazine but I can’t remember the month and year.
I would hardly call them automatic stokers. Mechanical stokers is a more accurate description. A few roads, Delaware & Hudson being one example, chose to doublehead firemen rather than install stokers. D&H had a fair number of locomotives with Wootten fireboxes which were wide and not too difficult for two firemen to work and keep out of each other’s way.
Mechanical stokers certainly is a more accurate description. I’m guessing a light pacific or mikado would be about the biggest locomotive that could be fired by hand.
Our USRA light 2-8-2 (GTW # 4070) has a set of Duplex stokers that were installed when built in 1918. Some railroads did not like them and converted to other types. This was done to the USRA 2-8-2 at the B&O museum. If you look carefully at the backhead, you can see where the duplex stokers used to be on the right and left sides of the firebox. So the date you are looking for is 1918 or earlier.
Jim Arcaro
President - Midwest chapter NRHS
Pennsy K-4’s, I-5’s, and L-1’s and L-2’s (Pacifics, Decopads, and Mikados) were hand fired for most of their careers.
Amen!! My Dad was a steamboat engineer and before being promoted had, of course, been a fireman (“stoker” in riverboat terminology). I remember asking a question about “automatic stokers” and being told very emphatically that there was no such thing.
Chuck
On the U.P., early Harriman mikes were “hand bombers”; later versions had stokers. Some of those without stokers were traded by O.S.L. to the Pedro for locomotives with stokers, and the stoker-less engines then were converted to oil. So, we are talking about the period from 1912 to 1922.
Some railroads, like the Pennsy, were bloody-minded about stokers. During the 1930’s the operating brotherhoods pressured the Interstate Commerce Commission to mandate that stokers be applied to all engines over a certain size or being used in high speed freight and passenger service. That and the advent of super power boilers made them pretty much universal, much to the relief of the hard working firemen!
Development of mechanical * stokers had started in the US by the early 1900s. The Pennsy was successfully using Crawford reciprocating underfeed stokers by 1905. The Street chain belt stoker was introduced in 1910. This was one of the first stokers to use a steam jet to distribute coal to the grate.
Duplex stokers were introduced about 1917, another steam jet design, and the basis for all modern stoker designs, using a conveyor screw to deliver coal from the tender to the firing table. Elvin stokers were introduced about 1920, a design that used oscillating vanes to duplicate the method of hand firing.
The Standard Stoker Company was established in 1920 to develop and market the mechanical stoker. They made two types, the MB and BK, both of which used a single conveyor screw tube and single firing table. The MB type brought the conveyor screw straight to the firing table by passing under the backhead, whereas the BK type delivered the coal to the top of the firing table through the firehole.
- Stokers are not automatic: the fireman must control and regulate the stoker screw speed, firing jet steam valves, and the vanes on the firing table that direct coal onto the grate. Stoker firing needs as much skill as hand firing.
In the US, the ICC decreed that by July 1, 1938, mechanical stokers were to be applied to all coal-burning passenger engines with 160,000 lb weight or more on drivers, and freight engines with 175, 000lb or more.
My own firing experience is on what would be considered a light Pacific in the US, which has a grate area of 50 square feet. Running at 115kph on mainline excursions, I would say that this is about the limit - I certainly
Most stokers on the U P were called Iron Firemen. The 4000 class had Iron Firemen.
There was a story in an old Railroad Man’s Magazine of a stoker jaming on an Erie triplex and the fireman either “bailed” or it died where it sat. As I recall the story, the locomotive’s performance deteriorated from the usual “lousy” and the fireman swore never again, but, in time, he got it home. (Reportedly the only time it ever happened !!!)
I believe the mallets that joseph 2 is refering to may be the triplexes. These three were in fact equiped with Street stokers. A chain bucket and lift assembly that required a special size coal and hardly ever worked. The rebuilt Angus 0-8-8-0 camelbacks (rebuilt to 2-8-8-2) were equiped with standard stokers by Baldwin. The triplexes arrived on the Erie in 1917-1918. As far as being automatic they never were and one fireman actually was able to to out stoke those Street designed stokers when one broke going up Susquehanna hill. Probably the only time it made it to the top of the grade with a full head of steam.
Hello, Locomotive 41 writing, in the books on my IA&HC RR publciation No. 12 is dated August 1916, on the same face of this booklet is the date 1915
The “4000 class” locos westfellows is referring to, in his post on “iron firemen,” were, of course, the big boys. As far as I know, hand-firing one of those was never tried, although one was once tested for use with oil (failed). Big boys had MBs, as I recall.
For those who want to be certain: The small script under the U.P. number on the cab tells what kind of stoker was installed in the unit – MB, BK, S (for Street), &c.
Thanks for all the very informative replies!