In the beautiful Kingman, AZ area, what if such walling was used instead of cutting through all the rock for a third main, the second on the southern Main 2 path (background, top track on both below photos)?
If BNSF did lay a third-track on those 3 relatively short sections, a left running biased track arrangement would extend from Los Angeles all the way to Belen, NM, and possibly beyond! At Winslow, AZ trains would not have to get in the way of opposite running trains either, as is done now!
Anticipating that may (“may”) be the reasoning for the Barstow Classification Yard’s seemingly illogical opposite-to-the-norm yard entrance tracks, tracks that have been in place for nearly 40 years now!
The Sunset Route seems to have its own thorny, weird issues for its two-tracking. Most prominent is the Colorado River SINGLE track crossing in Yuma, AZ.
Another is the signaling for a four-track situation in Pomona, CA while there is nearby only bridging for three tracks!
And the proliferation (seemingly) of spring frog switches for the future, big CP AL514 HAMILTON (also in Pomona) that does NOT match the routing aspects, i.e., that the majority of trains will be transferring from the SP-side on the east to the LA&SL-side on the west.
Will the multiplicity of assumedly switch parts boxes at Colton …
… correct that by replacing never put in service spring frog switches with moveable point frog types? Time will tell. And remember, IF trains ride the SP side all the way to Los Angeles and then follow the Los Angeles River south to the Alameda Trench to get to the ports, those trains will encounter a bunch (“bunch”) of hot priority commuter trains, which passing through and getting in the way of Sunset Route trains is a dilemma in itself.
The fact that both railroads have thorny, mystery-like dilemma situations makes for real-world drama for us observers to watch (though they are very subtle and snail-paced in solving) that in some ways
As you said, dispatcher choice of tracks to use does not make much difference with CTC. However, that truth declines in truthfulness as train density rises. When K.P. was in Arizona along the Trancon it did NOT occur, but in desertdog’s travels it happened when he traveled along the Transcon, namely, trains every 10 minutes!
A fleet of fifteen westbound trains meeting a fleet of ten eastbounds simply does not allow a dispatch the leisure to choose tracks at his whim. If he does, nevertheless, and delays all 25 trains, or at least the majority of them, by four hours, he will likely be called on the carpet, and experience the torture of pitchforks and daggers being run through him, if you know what I mean …
At a Transcon bias transition place, Winslow, AZ, K.P. did see chronic delays because trains exceeded the design limitations of the physical plant, and so often hung into the CP’s.
Can you imagine all the high-cost fuel wasted at Winslow because the trains ahead had blocked the interlocking?
KP, we should be very careful in making judgments with VERY limited data, ie., desertdog’s very brief exposure to BNSF traffic as he drove along, not parked and observing, I-40. I too drive I-40 and also stop and observe what is happening. What he saw could have been just the opposite at a different time or at a specific location. Addressing the Winslow situation you observed and photographed appears to those who see it for a limited time to be a bottleneck and it may occasionally be that but for a very short time. There are three main tracks for a distance of three plus miles through Winslow plus the Amtrak ‘siding’ for temporary use twice per day. At west Winslow all trains stop and change crews, plus take care of any special issues that a arriving crew may report. Having spent parts of many days observing Winslow I have never seen any lengthy delays, in fact I have seen westward Z trains stop, change crews and leave in 10 minutes or less. And as they leave eastward passing the hotel where I sit and watch they are accelerating to 40-50 MPH if they are seeing high green at the East Winslow CP.
Most certainly we need to be careful in assessing observations with very limited data. But, the Transcon in some respects doesn’t need data, just a historic comprehension of the line, such as in Automatic Block Signal (ABS) days all trains ran left handed between Winslow, AZ and Belen, NM. The reason for that bias has NOT changed with CTC, and the gradient that favors one track over another for a specific direction at a specific location has not changed.
Forum contributor desertdog’s left running observations EAST of Winslow, AZ are consistent with tradition.
I’ve spend many an hour at Daggett, CA (near Barstow) over the decades, and even under CTC now eastward TO Winslow, trains consistently operate with a right bias through Daggett, with an occasional train running against the bias, likely for the DS to get one train around another.
Daggett, CA, looking east:
Looking westbound:
Looking westbound towards the junction switch for the LA&SL:
Do not know if you have seen this from Progressive Railroading.
BNSF Railway Co. recently launched work on a $68 million double-track project west of Vaughn, N.M.
The Class I plans to build 9.3-mile second main track to eliminate one of only four remaining single-track sections on its Southern Transcon route between Chicago and Los Angeles. Grading work is under way and track construction is scheduled to start in early 2015, with the double track expected to enter service in mid-2015.
The additional capacity will improve velocity and enhance service along the Transcon — one of the railroad’s most important routes, BNSF officials said in a press release.
After the project is completed, only 25 miles of single track will remain on the route, including a 2.3-mile segment in Ft. Sumner, N.M., over the Pecos River, they said.
The project is part of BNSF’s $5 billion capital plan in 2014, of which $2.3 billion is budgeted to improve the railroad’s core network and related assets.
KP there are reasonable places to overnight in Winslow, just not the La Posada. However staying elsewhere does not preclude you from watching trains from their viewing location next to the tracks. If you should choose to come this way I may find the opportunity to join you so lets keep that in mind. Now regarding your(apparent)belief that the several adverse grade locations between Belen and Barstow dictate a directional bias as the dispatchers manipulate their (sometimes) 100 plus trains per day. That is now longer a factor, although any efficient DS will use the best grade for a heavy train when they can. The trains now have sufficient power to handle any situation. The real dictate for the dispatchers is to manipulate the priority trains as efficiently as possible by switching them back and forth as necessary with the aid of 50 MPH crossovers available every ten miles approximately. So if you come this way again bring a scanner and listen to all of this happening. You will be enlightened by having your ears as well as your eyes educating you. I look forward to sharing that experience with you.
No, I had not seen the news article about bridging the gap in BNSF two-tracking at and west of Vaughn, NM. Thanks for the tipoff.
I guess we will all find out soon what BNSF intends on doing about the big landfill at Vaughn for going over UP’s Golden State Route (which UP route meets up with the Sunset Route at El Paso, TX). BNSF could widen the landfill, or use walling like the short section in Cajon Pass, just posted about a day or so ago.
BNSF spent about $5 million a mile in Cajon Pass in 2007-2008.on triple-tracking about 16 miles, $80 million total. Solid rock had to be cut away in a few places. (Below photo’s upper right)
With the Vaughn project, it looks like BNSF is spending $7.3 million a mile. Wow! Of course, since 2007-2008 there has been inflation, but still, that is quite a sum per mile!
It is tempting to drive out that way and see the project in person. I’ve never investigated the area in depth before, but it looks like from aerials there is a grade crossing east of the big landfill in Vaughn, and photos could be taken from there (maybe).
On Thursday, August 14, 2014 K.P. had opportunity to check out the trusses status, and found not much had changed, but the concrete abutments and woodwork were slightly more developed. A more thorough, brief report will be forthcoming in a day or so.
A westbound train off the Sunset Route via the Mt. Vernon Connector apparently got hung up with red flags, but eventually approached Main St. in Highgrove.
The last unit on the train was one of those railfan popular GE C40-8’s that have been showing up of late.
The graffiti people did a job on the unit!
More about the trusses in the upcoming short presentation …
Aerials Don’t Lie
As most know, the saga of mysteries relative to the Diversion in Pomona, CA and the spring frog switches at the future CP AL514 HAMILTON therein continues. Every once in a while K.P. sees a great flash to light, and everything makes sense thereafter. Such an experience occurred yesterday, and aerials were checked, and sure enough …
Thanks for the updates with regard to Grand Terrace and the construction of the bridges. One more to go is how I read it.
KP I think you read to much into what I said. I did not say, nor imply, that dispatchers move trains at a “Whim”, they move trains around with regard to what’s most efficient…for the railroad. Rules and guidelines rule the day. Using the example of a faster train running around a slower one, what would appear to be left hand running or “Bias” as you stated. Another example would be a train that has developed operational problems and had to stop to make repairs Ie., a broken coupler. And that’s the truth.
On Cajon Pass the Santa Fe preferred to operate their trains via left hand running. Giving the uphill trains the easier grade to climb. Today, it’s all based on what trains can run down the hill safely without the danger of a run away. As a result you will still see left hand running. All that is about to change but not necessarily end, as improvements are made and power stables change the way trains will be run in the future.
Despite what we might think about “Bias” the railroads don’t look at in quite the same way. Although like you said, “It makes for an interesting discussion”. Perhaps a bit over done but I don’t mind.
Barstow’s yard is not so dissimilar to some UP yards. Designed and engineered for quick processing, classification and the make up of trains. Hardly odd at all.
Rumor mill in the Victorville arena, has it the narrows crossover may become a thing of the past. A new road is being planned, darn near over the top of the narrows to connect Victorville with Apple Valley, Ca. It’s been said by more then
Before your post is addressed … Thursday, it looked like Friday would be a free day, and a grandiose plan was drawn up to visit Barstow and the BNSF Transcon, and document the believed biases there once and for all. It proved to be a free day all right, and the alarm clock rang at 3:00 A.M. for getting to Daggett by 5:00 A.M., by dawn. But my creaky old body had other ideas …
Later, I ended up going the OTHER way, towards Los Angeles! So now I have Grand Terrace area photos to post, photo proof of radical things pertaining to the Pomona Diversion, photos by Workman Mill Rd. related to the Puente Hills Intermodal Facility (PHIMF), a lit yellow over yellow signal at CP C038 ONTARIO (below) …
… and photos of the Vineyard Ave. underpass construction in Ontario. ONLY about 140 photos were taken between the two days (I was out on a dispatch Thursday), but those photos convey the happenings quite well. Expect some very soon future posts on all this.
BarstowRick (8-15): Regular Reply
Addressing your specific reply … Just for clarification, one train running around another does NOT constitute a bias. A bias reference (unofficially) is repeated and repeated and repeated use of a certain track in a certain direction. Between Cajon and Summit on BNSF’s Cajon Pass line,
KP, I have my ear plugs on but it doesn’t much matter as I’m up here in Big Bear Country and they can pound away all they want. I’d never hear it.
You know besides Steinheimer there were other’s such as Chard Walker, who felt that at some point in the future the crossover or flyover, just this side of Frost, near the narrows would be eliminated. Talking about the possibilities of three tracking the Santa Fe main. All speculation while it. made for some interesting afternoons of chatter. At the time we all felt the tunnels wouldn’t survive.
Getting back to the chatter about the crossover just south of Frost. Today, the folks in Apple Valley and Victorville want another four lane road that will connect Apple Valley to I-15. Bear Valley Cutoff is anything but a cut off and the traffic over the Mojave River is bumper to bumper as they pass the Victor Valley College. Remaining that way until you finally cross the I-15. Never mind I-15 over Cajon Pass…lately. Hwy 18, isn’t much better. So the plan is to build a four lane Hwy that will run east and west possibly crossing the Mojave River somewhere near BNSF’s not so natural crossover. According to those I talk to and I’m always quick to point out “The Rumor Mill”. Plans are on the table and surveys made with an eye on changing the track plan at that location. I have no idea what is going to happen next. This could be as big a boon doggle as the plans BNSF had for a shipping facility at the old GAFB. Never mind the plans they had for San Bernardino, CA… We shall see what happens next.
The new north (railroad east) side support-work for the future truss bridges over the I-215 Freeway:
The new center pier-work
Just above, if you look real good, there seems to be THREE support pairs of two posts each!
That would match the south supports that seem to have three supports under construction, especially when comparing the present truss bridge supports on the below photo’s left.
Because those supports (just above) are at an angle and mostly unseen, it is difficult to interpret them. From what is seen, though, the implication is that the two truss bridges that are in service will BOTH be moved to NEW alignments.
A northward (eastbound) view from Main St. in Highgrove: A double-stack UP off the
That was a fascinate news thought about a new thru-highway by the BNSF “natural crossover” in Victorville, CA. Sounds great, but I don’t know how they could get through all the buildings (residential and business) in Victorville proper!
Ranchero Rd. in Hesperia goes though now from I-15 (almost), under the BNSF Transcon, and points east.
July 1, 2013 eastward photos
With the disastrous burning of the under construction Ranchero Rd. bridge over I-15, Caltrans reportedly was set back 6 months on the project.
Hey, Rick, you might be interested in this probably little known fact outside of involved railroaders … On the Palmdale Cutoff THROUGH CAJON PASS that “T” wyes into the Sunset Route at Colton, there was a spur in the M.P. 460 area that went to an electric utility.
That new east-west road crossing the Mojave River is more than just talk, its already under construction. They are in pier construction stage right now. The bridge is a extension of Yucca Loma Rd. It will dump traffic onto a widened Yates Rd with in turn becomes Ridgecrest Rd (parallels the BNSF on the east side from the Natural Crossover to Bear Valley). The next step is to extend BOTH Green Tree Blvd and Nisqualli Rd east over the BNSF tracks (the Green Tree crossing will be just south of the Nautral Crossover) to Ridgecrest Rd, providing tons of additional highway capacity to relieve Bear Valley Parking Lot, I mean Cutoff.
Let’s see - three abutments sans bridges on each side, 3 center pylons, all line up with the previously straight alignment.
You will see the fifth and sixth trusses placed on the closest alignment and the other four trusses shifted alongside them. Afterward the currently-in use abutments and pylons will be demo’d
I raised my kids in Victorville, Ca., at the time a scrawny little wanna be watering hole along the road way. I’m very much aware of the switch to the electric switching planet. Like you, I puzzled over it as well wondering what was up with the lock. However, at the time SP had an agreement to deliver experimental hardware for an alternative electric generating planet. Started looking like something from Star Wars, out there… As far as security, prior to 9-11 no one even considered the lock on the switchstand as being a risk. No percieved threat, other then maybe kids playing on quads down around that area. The threat being their safety. It was common practice by the railroads to secure a switchstand in such a fashion. Today, we act paranoid and spend huge amounts of money to protect against an unseen enemy, who wants to kill Americans. Suggesting, that paranoia may save lives in the long run.
Mr. BNSF…, So the construction on the newest bridge over the Mojave River is in progress. How about that. Curious, how are they going to connect with I-15? Thinking an over pass is needed as well as new on and off ramps. If they try to use the Green Tree, at 7th St., gosh what a cluster ________, (yeah I thought you could fill in the blank) that’s going to be. The last time I went through there three of us were able to complete a game of monopoly. [:P]
KP said “When UP finally builds its Red Rock Yard at Red Rock, AZ, it would seem the yard will be built on the north side of the two-track mainline.”
Yep. There’s really no other alternative. Only 150 feet separate the shoulder of westbound I-10 and the ballast on the UP’s mainline… There’s also a pipeline easement and a service road between the two.
That, in conjunction with the Tucson Yard being on the south side of the main, leads me to speculate that there will continue to be a left-track bias east of Estrella and west of Tucson.
Barstow Rick, There is a “new” overpass on the I-15 at Nisqualli Rd (halfway between 7th and Bear Valley) that was finished in the last year or so. The plan is for traffic coming over the new bridge to be routed onto a widened Yates Rd going around the north side of the houses east of the Natural Flyover and south of the Regional Park. Instead of Yates turning south to become Ridgecrest Rd, it will instead continue west, meeting Ridgecrest at a “T” interchange, cross over the BNSF tracks and continue to the current intersection with Hesperia Rd and Green Tree. Traffic can then continue west on Green Tree to 7th (not an option any sane driver would inflict on themselves) or go south on Hesperia and turn right on Nisqualli Rd and continue to the I-15. You mentioned you raised your kids in Victorville, now days people raise their kids to adulthood while going thru 7th/Green Tree intersection. Finally, the rail spur to the electric switching station (officially it is Southern California Edison’s Lugo Switching Station) has been completely removed except for a short peice on SCE property. Heavy rains a few years back covered much of the tracks in sand and its hasn’t been used for many years now anyway. By the way, the switch on the mainline was refered to on the SP as “HIVOLT”. A great name I thought.
