I notice when cars are set out by a thru train, the conductor will set hand brakes on usually the far end three cars before moving into final placement in yard track. (I realize the hand brakes would have to be set at some point before leaving the cars). Guess it is so he/she can stay near the engines to cut off front end of set out cars. This must wear on brake shoes and who pays for new ones. Most cars are now private owned and am wondering if railroads change them out as needed and bill owner. This would not seem fair to car owners. Seems that you would not go to the owners maintainence shop for just new shoes.
There is a entire system in place to cover the repair of equipment when on ‘foreign’ carriers - the system defines who pays what and how much is paid for specific kinds of repairs. Replacing brake shoes is one of the items covered. [Foreign is any carrier that is not the owner of the equipment.]
If the required repairs for a car are more extensive than those covered in the freight car repair billing system - the system requires the car to be moved back to the owner for repairs, the ‘home shop’ cars. All carriers and private owners have designated locations where their cars that are ‘home shops’ are to be delivered to.
The more expensive issue here is flat wheels. Replacing a wheel set is exponentially more expensive than brake shoes. And if you drag a car around with brakes set, it will develop flat spots.
Changing out flat wheels is a part of routine running repairs that get charged to the account of the owner.
The distance cars would be shoved with handbrakes applied is not sufficient to create a condemable flat spot. Condemable flat spots get created where the brakes stick on a car that is being moved in a train and the wheel set(s) have been move miles between the onset of the sticking and having the issue found and corrected.
The Class 1 carriers have been installing WILD Detectors (Wheel Impact Load Detectors). These devices measure the impact loading of wheels passing over the detector. On CSX, when I was working, there were 5 levels that the detectors indicated - NO impact and impact level 1 to 4. Levels 1 & 2 would post a notification to the car’s record in the Car & Train reporting data base, with no further action being required. Level 3 reported to the Car Dept. Help Desk, the Chief Dispatcher and Trick Dispatcher where the WILD is located with instruction for the train to be stopped, the specific car inspected and if the Conductor deems the car safe to move the car can be taken to destination at not exceeding 30 MPH. The Level 4 impact is reported to the same personnel as the Level 3, however the train must be stopped, the car inspected by the Conductor and if safe to move the car is to be set out at the nearest set off location and the train must not exceed 10 MPH while moving to the set off location.
Cars at Level 3 & 4, get rewheeled before their next moves.
Except for the push/pull test and when riding a free rolling car, moving cars with handbrakes applied is a rule violation. But it does happen.
Loaded cars will never, ever skid, no matter how hard you apply the handbrake. I’ve dragged them around myself when the occasion suits it, such as in winter when you want to warm the brakes up before spotting a car at or near the end of a track.
Once a wheel develops a flat spot it will tend to stop on the flat spot during braking, and the spot will get a little bit worse each time. This goes for locomotives and cars.
For a few years after the rollout of WILD detectors, I cynically conluded the only cars the detectors identified as having bad wheels carried private reporting marks. We leased our rail fleet (chemical shipper) but, the leasing companies I dealt with all said their wheel replacement costs had gone through the roof and, as a lessee, those higher costs worked their way back to us. I began to wonder if wheel replacement was a new revenue stream for the Class 1’s. At an industry meeting that included a speaker from the FRA touting the benefits of the detectors, I asked him if they had statistics indicating the percentage of cars with private reporting marks flagged for bad wheels versus the number of cars with railroad reporting marks flagged for the same reason. He refused to answer.
I’m retired now but, when I’m trackside, I’d swear I hear flat spots on far more railroad owned cars than privates.
Curt
[quote user=“tree68”]
Juniata Man
The more expensive issue here is flat wheels. Replacing a wheel set is exponentially more expensive than brake shoes. And if you drag a car around with brakes set, it will develop flat spots.
Curt
Anyone who has done any trackside trainwatching knows how prevalent flat spots are.
I’ve heard that the rule of thumb is that if you can hear the flat spot for seven cars in a moving train, it’s actionable.
There are, of course, specific parameters - haw big, how many, how close togethe
For a few years after the rollout of WILD detectors, I cynically conluded the only cars the detectors identified as having bad wheels carried private reporting marks. We leased our rail fleet (chemical shipper) but, the leasing companies I dealt with all said their wheel replacement costs had gone through the roof and, as a lessee, those higher costs worked their way back to us. I began to wonder if wheel replacement was a new revenue stream for the Class 1’s. At an industry meeting that included a speaker from the FRA touting the benefits of the detectors, I asked him if they had statistics indicating the percentage of cars with private reporting marks flagged for bad wheels versus the number of cars with railroad reporting marks flagged for the same reason. He refused to answer.
I’m retired now but, when I’m trackside, I’d swear I hear flat spots on far more railroad owned cars than privates.
Curt
tree68
Juniata Man
The more expensive issue here is flat wheels. Replacing a wheel set is exponentially more expensive than brake shoes. And if you drag a car around with brakes set, it will develop flat spots.
Curt
Anyone who has done any trackside trainwatching knows how prevalent flat spots are.
I’ve heard that the rule of thumb is that if you can hear the flat spot for seven cars in a moving train, it’s actionable.
I’d like to see an answer on this also. I’d never heard of this.
Is the idea that yes, it can be pushed by an engine, but those three handbrakes would not allow the cut to just roll away? In other words, three handbrakes would the normal amount set for that size cut, but out of, well, laziness, he is doing it ahead of time?
Northtowne, it sounds like you’ve been witnessing rules infractions.
A while back, I asked one of the railroaders what they would do to recover if they broke a knuckle while passing over a structure like the Tulip Trestle. And the response was to shove the parted section back off the bridge.
The very idea seemed mind boggling to me. But evidently pushing a locked up train isn’t as rare as it might seem to us outsiders.
If the parted section isn’t going to run away (ie, it’s being pushed upgrade, or at least on the level), it could be put back on air (assuming the conductor can get to it either by walkway on the trestle (if there is one) or riding the last car from somewhere off the bridge back to the train).
If the train will stay bunched, just hook up the air, recharge the train (and thus release the brakes) and start shoving. If/when the brake pipe parts again, it’ll just dump the parted section (again). Once the conductor (hopefully with a knuckle) has a safe place to work, he can replace the knuckle and they’ll be on their way.
Pushing one or a few handbrakes (often only on one truck) may not be too difficult, but pushing 30-40 cars in emergency isn’t going to happen.
Its just so funny to me how people with no railroad experience (real railroading not some volunteer tourist train or museum deal) act so shocked about rules violations. News flash sometimes you have to break rules, it’s simply a matter of first knowing that you are breaking a rule, choosing which rule to break, how to break it as safely as possible, and hoping you don’t get caught. If we didn’t break rules from time to time trains wouldn’t move. The big railroads even have a term for it : malicious rules compliance. The railroad doesn’t like people who do that.
Of course I don’t have knowledge of every field or occupation, but I also don’t go online acting like I do.
If we didn’t move cars with handbrakes applied in the yard it would take a whole lot longer to get anything switched out. You’re talk
It’s OK in my part of the world to move a car(s) with hand brakes as long as they don’t go over a switch. It’s usually done when shoving/pulling a track when the end that gets the hand brakes applied is at the far end.
There is a rule that requires hand brakes to be applied when spotting cars on a stub ended track, usually when spotting an industry. At least 150 feet from the end of the track the movement needs to be stopped, a suffucient number of brakes applied to control slack and the movement resumed to where the car needs to be spotted.