Did a trolley run all the way up to White Plains?
I believe there was a gap that was not filled. The 1 line did run further into downtown Hastings, and there was an isolated Third Avenue-run Tarrrytown - White Plains line. Here is a map of the system as I renenber it 1940 to the end of Bronx lines in 1948 and start of Westchester abandonments in 1950 or 1951. As long as Yonkers lines and Westechester lines ran, they did continue to enter The Bronx to the subway line terminals, with the B even continuing further south to 229th Street.
This is from memory, so there may be errors.
I should note that with the exception of the Sedgewick Avenue line in The Bronx, which in my day was a one-car every-half-hour semi-shuttle, all single-track operations of Third Avenue were in Yonkers during this period. The 8 on Riverdale Avenue used two cars with a passing siding midway. The 9 Elm & Walnut used one car, with a steep grade, and the only derailer on the system. Going back downtown on Walnut just after leaving the outer terminal, the operator had to come to full stop and key the derailer off to continue downhill.
Also, the only track on the entire Third Avenue system that was not in pavement (after ending their operations on the Queensboro and Manhattan Bridges where track was shared with othe companies, long before my time) was on the outer end of the 5 Neperhan Avenue line.
Thanks. You also answred my next question, which was to confirm the Tarrytown-White Plains line.
I found out that in addition to the NH and NYW&B between New Rochelle and Port Chester, there was also a trolley.
Yes, and it did run all the way from New Rochelle to Stamford. Third Avenue actually owned the rack as far as Rye, with a local line New Rochelle RR Station to to Rye Beach. (Rye also had a NYW&B stop, sorry I left that out, New Rochelle, Larchmont, Memaroneck, Harrison, Rye, Portchester. Do I have the order correct?) Of course I can check Metro-North timetable on-line.) The New York and Stamford was a real interurban, not just a cross-country trolley line, since it operated genuine Jewett or Jewett-style railroad-roof green interurban cars. It was an essential part of the trolley-car link between Waterville, Maine, and New York. It connected with Connecticut Company lines in Stamford.
At the New Haven RR Station forecort, there were was a multi-line departure board, which is now the the Branford Electric Ry. Association’s Shore Line Trolley Museum in or near the East Haven Sprague Station. Subway, Rye Beach, and Stamford are among the destinations shown. There were two or three New Rochelle local lines.
One of my earliest memories is looking out of the back window of a car as we went under the subway’s elevated structure on White Plains Road and then out into the open at E 241st, followed by a Third Avenue convertable. The tracks remained in sight all through the trip through New Rochelle, including the abandoned tracks north of where the active loops serving the station turned off, and then the track swerved to the north or east side of the road and dissapeared. This was in 1935, I was three-and-a-half, and I have recounted the return trip from Hartford and my memory of the steam locomotive.
I was suprised to hear that The NY & Stamford was a full interurban. I figured it must have been a rinky-dink trolley, such that NH thought it was worth it to finance the NYW&B interurban New Rochelle-Port Chester extension. Maybe the extension was just to supplement (relieve?) the NH on some of the local business.
And yes, you have the correct order of stations.
I read that the NYW&B passengers to the 133rd St Terminal could connect to th 3rd Avenue El. I also read that the Third Ave bridge carried that line. Were the rails carried at road deck level? Did making the bridge one-way in 1941 affect rail transit?
The existing Third Avenue bridge once had streetcar tracks, and for many years the line was a shuttle from 149th Street, the Hub, Westchester Avenue, Boston Road, Webster Avenue, Third Avenue. Willis Avenue all converging south over the bridge to 129th Street and Third Avenue and a connection with the conduit Third Avenue streetcar. When the bridge was made one-way before WWII, the tracks became service non-revenue only, used during the middle of the night for car transfer, and the replacement bus was the same as the replacement for the Willis Avenue-125th Street streetcar, since the First Avenue Bridge also became one-way the other way.
The Third Avenue Elevated had a completely different bridge. Originally built by the Suburban Company it saw steam elevated trains from 129th Street, a joint station, Suburban, 2nd Av. and 3rd Av. Els., track map on the Remember the Third Ave. El thread, north to Treemont Avenue AND New York New Haven and Hartford Harlem Shuttle steam trains, with elevated-dimension coaches, from New Rochelle. After electrification of the elevateds in 1903, 3rd Avenue trains ran through to Treemont Avenue, and shuttle from 129th St. was established to Willis Avenue station where the NYNH&H steam trains, later electrified, terninated. After the dual contracts, and the IRT rebuilding of the elevateds, the single-level double-track bridge was replaced with a two-level bridge, with two tracks on each level. The upper level was used only during rush hours by 3rd and 2nd Avenue Expresses, with the lower level used all the time. The elevated shuttles to Willis Avenue continued to operate using the lower level. This bridge does not exist today.
Thanks, I looked at the map on the earlier thread. Using that map, it looks like the El bridge might be the bridge identified as the Secong Av Br on the linked 1947 topo map:
https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/NY/NY_Central%20Park_122894_1947_24000.jpg
Correct. The bridge was located at 2nd Avenue. It did not have a roadway for regular vehicles, and was used for elevated trains exclusively. I think a new roadway bridge may have replaced it.
The two levels of track north of the bridge were on PRoW, even though elevated. The takeoff for the Willis Avenue station was a track between the two lower-level tracks that ramped down to ground level after the take-off for the lead to the small elevated yard where the old steam locomotives were stored until sale. The Willis Avenue station had the elevated, the NYNH&H Harlem Shuttle, and the NYW&B.
There are videos of the ‘last days’ of the 2nd and 3rd Avenue Els (narrated by Roger Arcara iianm) that clearly show the bridges and track arrangements with discussion (and film!) of operations across them.
Are those videos on line?
Yes, definitely, on U-Tube. Google Second and Third Avenue Elevateds, and you will reach it. Very good, except too much footage on scrapping and disposing of old cars. Also one minior error. The streetcar undr the 2nd Avenue and 42nd Street Station he calls a 42nd Street crosstowno is clearly a double-end Peter Witt 551-series lightweight assigned only to the Broadway - 42nd Street Line. The 42nd St. Crosstown was run almost entirely by curved-side convertables with the occasional Sunday-only appearance of end-door 626-series lightweights borrowed from the 59th Street crosstown.
Also the old subway cars used as elevated express trains were composites, not mostly wood. We called them The Comoposites.
As an experiment, one of the aluminum bodied 551-600 Brodway - 42nd Street “Huffliners” was left mainly unpainted aliluminum with red numbers and trim. After some months it was painted creamy yellow and red like the oeathers. I copied this photo 71 years ago from the companies files.
Here we are at the north end of the West Farms carhouse, August 1948, with 194 the last car on the Boston Road line, The elevated structure is that use by the 2 and 5. The car saw four more years of service in Yonkers, until 1952.
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Dave, it does not look like the photo made it into your last post.
Strange. Should be able to correct this tomorrow with a wide-band server.
corrected by this post with another from the same day:
Correction to previous posts. 194 was not the last car and was at the north upper level portal on Southern Bkvd of the West Farms car-house. 196, the last car, was photographed inside on the lower level, back entrnce. Both cars saw addional service in Yonkers replacing 301-400 series cars that needed overhauling.
In the autumn 1947 the Columbia Grammar Prep Football team played a game (Bronx Highschool of Science?) on the public park field across 161st Street from Yankee Stadium; and, while photographing football actifities, I did manage a passing photo of 130, formerly a conduit car for the "T"and “K” Manahttan routes, but transfered to the Bronx with troilley pole in March 1947. I think it was sold to someplace in Indua in 1948. The Elevated structure in the background is here on River Street, merges into Jerome Avenue, behind me here, just before the 167th Street Station. The “4” is the line today. The streetcar line is the 161st-163rd Street Crosstown.
Here are all photos scanned so far for my favorite streetcar, the Broadway - 42nd Street Huffliner named for Slaughter Huff, Pres. of Third Avenue Railway and then Third Avenue Tansit, and believer in conltinued streetcar operation on heavy routes. Two or three posted earlier.
551 was the sample prototype, aluminum. Reportadly built by Brill. 552-600 were also aluminium, but assembled at the Third Avenue’shop at E. 65th St. and Third Avenue.
Here it is equipped with a temporar single trolley pole at the Gardner Avenue, Mt. Veron, yard, shorly after its completion in 1938. Its visit to Yonkers and Westchester may have been to test its speed capabilities on Yonkers Avenue, where sustained relatively high speed ws possible, and it probably was run all the way to New Rochelle to get tusrned around at the loop there.
555, one of the 551- 600 aluminum production run, was left as unpainted aluminum, with a thin red stripe. The wood doors were painted silver to match. The car is in front of the 129th Stret and Amsterdam Av. carhouse. 551 had exit doors opposed, 552-600, and the Corten steel 601 - 625 had staggered exit doors; 551’s were opposite.
551 - 625 were the only Peter Witt Third Avenue cars. All others in the era of one-man operation had rear exits. 577 is at or around 86th & Broadway.
597 is southbound at Broadway and 73rd Street.
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